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Love This Game! Future of RTS
SneakAttack
A lot of people want this to be DOW1/2, I cant say I played those games when they released, or played any multiplayer (bought them since DOW3 and played maybe a couple hours of each / campaign)... they are fun, but this is something else completely. Its the next generation of RTS imo. The balancing has been improving, they just need a way to expand on the community they have now. Games like SC1 and WC didn't start off with 10,000 kids playing everyday, and look at those spin offs now. DOW3 offers a lot to the RTS player and I think people who aren't giving it a chance are people who are still upset that its not DOW1/2, being new to the DOW franchise with DOW3, I find the game has a lot of depth and potential for high tier play. People should watch some of the streamers to see how the game should be played, its nice to have people figuring out strategies and ways to deal with things, as Relic continues to balance. Balancing RTS is never easy, so many components, people who love anything similar to SC should really love this as I think its the next game RTS needed, been stale for a while. I'm sure I will get a lot of hate for this post, but people who wanna just troll should go play something else and let the kids who love this game help balance it and watch it grow!!
Comments
Draconix
+1, OP. Even if this game has a bad situation, I will continue to play its skirmish. Just like I did with Grey Goo and Etherium.
Its good to see, that there are still people who are enjoying this game.
aghabozorg
@SneakAttack totally agree with u.this game has lots of potential.the only thing DOW3 needs right now is balance patches (relic is doing good imo and the balance is not that bad right now) and more content (new races+new maps+a new game mod for casual players).im enjoying it right now and will support and play it till the end
Strangequark
I'm not going to give you hate, but I'm gonna lay out a few things for ya. I can't speak for everyone, but a common theme I see isn't that its not DoW1/2 but that it's abandoned a lot of key elements that players liked from those games. The base building from 1, cover and moral from 2, its different for everyone, but when the marketing campaign had slogans like "We took the best of 1 and 2 and combined them for this new epic experience" when those players picked up the game they found out rather quickly that what relic thought was the best elements from those games, and what they enjoyed did not match up.
WC never had a MP element, it was made before battle.net was a thing. The world in which those games grew was very very different from the world we live in today, you can't make a good comparison between them when you're talking 20 some years of changing tech, and industry.
I'm glad you like the game, but to say that those who have issue with the game haven't given it a chance is fairly disingenuous. This is an IP that has had a long run with fans from different generations. They gave the game a chance and found themselves either unable to enjoy themselves, or worse that they just wasted 60 dollars. They all have their own reasons for disliking the game but saying that they are trolling isn't a good way to help the game grow. Most are still upset, down right angry at the direction of the franchise in the latest installment, and it would be just as poor to call someone who enjoys the game a fanboy, which I'm sure you wouldn't like to be labeled. It goes both directions on that road.
Telling them to outright leave is also not going to help the game grow as it is, most have done exactly that already, and its why we didn't even hit 1000 players during peak hours on a saturday evening. The game first and foremost needs as many players as possible for a variety of reasons, it helps a company make the decision to add more content, it keeps the MP scene healthy with a wide swath of players from different skill levels so someone doesn't just get absolutely destroyed when there isn't enough for the system to reliably match you up against someone closer to your own skill, or even so that the MP scene can work like intended instead of taking as long as a match or longer to even pair you up against your opponent.
I hope you take this more as helping you see both sides of the issue, rather then what typically happens with a knee jerk reaction of "Stop disliking what I like."
HeyGringo
StrangeQuark do you actully own this game if not your views are null and void.
Strangequark
I thought about being snarky as that language is obviously inflammatory, but I'll instead list them just to give you an idea, let me open my steam library up.
DoW1, in the box with a cd
DoW winter assualt
DoW Soulstorm
DoW 2
DoW 2 Chaos Rising
DoW 2 Retribution
DoW 3
Is that enough 40k relic products for you to justify my opinion?
Homeworld
Homeworld 2
CoH
CoH2
CoH2 opposing fronts
CoH2 Tales of Valor
Warhammer 40k: Space marine.
You are free to apologize at any time.
Brichals
I think it needs more single player content or just things for people to hang about in game to do. Then the multiplayer can grow organically. It can be the future of RTS, I believe that too. The barrier to entry is pretty brutal and it is a different world to 20 years ago.
I played BW on LAN and it was amazing, we did every strat possible, I loved infecting my mate's bases and blowing him up with infested Terrans. Of course we didn't really realise that you had to build more workers and macro and stuff. You could never build infested Terrans in BW now because you'd get stomped hard trying to do anything but standard builds. You couldn't even build ghosts or battle cruisers in SC2 when I played that, Carriers the same etc. Everything is online and twitch and youtube now so it's all cut throat strats and steep learning curves. I don't think it's a problem with DoW3, under the same conditions DoW1 would also be infuriating.
Strangequark
I can't help myself I have to be at least a little snarky. Here's a few more from the universe if not from relic
Warhammer Vermintide
40k Regicide
Total War Warhammer
Space Hulk Deathwing
and to show that its not just the games, but the universe in general
Just you know, to show you that I paint my army in game to match my table top pieces, even if I enjoy painting the miniatures more than playing the TT anymore (Its hard to find enough people in my smaller town to play a proper TT game.)
HeyGringo
I thought you was the guy who played 9 hours in beta and has been constantly posting on here saying how crap the game is.
tritol
I wouldnt say its future of RTS but its definitely really good game .. well if you ignore that its 60$ beta, but that reflects mostly on the lack of content and small details like not being able to zoom in properly ... but that doesnt change the fact that gameplay is really enjoyable, doctrines and elites are really good idea and it still has stuff different from other RTS games like squads, reinforcing, resource points etc ..
maybe if I waited a year until it has more content and got it with some discount from sales Id enjoy it even more .. but so far I am having fun with this and as soon as they add more stuff I am going to play this 24/7
and the biggest problem is the WH40k community extremely xenophobic and very small and isolated
Strangequark
ROFL, crow isn't a good flavor of pie is it?
I have 7 hours in the game proper, with about 57 hours in the beta.
Think about that for a moment, the beta was over a free weekend because I did not pre purchase the game, so in 3 to 4 days that weekend was going that's how much time I spent in the game. I fooled myself into thinking the beta was an older playable version that relic wanted to test the servers with and that we might get a different version that was a bit different on release. (This stems from how unfinished the game felt, or that we didn't have access to all of the maps etc etc) I also used a lot of my time in the beta to dive deep into the core of the game, with a fine toothed comb. Which included but was not limited to unit damage and health values, doctrine values, overall balance, core mechanics, micro vs macro balance, as well as overall design which includes UI, map balance, pace and timing.
I was wrong and thoroughly disappointed, but still tried to give the game a chance and found myself more frustrated than having an enjoyable experience. So to keep from burning myself out on an experience that I didn't in the slightest find enjoyable I cut way back, playing for a couple of hours after each balance patch to thoroughly test tweaked number values for the units that were changed. This was never in the game proper, it was in custom games so that I could control the environment in which the units were engaged and get a much better overall feel for the direction that balance was moving. Basic line units vs each race, with their doctrines, without their doctrines.
Does that give you a proper thorough picture?
CANNED_F3TUS
I think Relic did a good job at combining things from DoW 1 and 2 they did what they could to try to make everyone happy. But it really doesnt help that thr warhammer fanbase is often super critical about changes and loath them. Yes Relic was targeting a wider audience. Can you blame them? No id have tried the same. Relic innovates its what they do. They try to bring out a fresh game everytime. All in all DoW 3 is heading in the right direction and improved alot of things in DoW 3. Also relic is considering increasing line unit health by 20 25 percent down the road which will help the old fans like the game more cause everything will be slightly tougher. So relic is listening to the fans.
Strangequark
Quote snipped for length, I've never said that relic shouldn't innovate, its a good thing to take something and improve upon it. They took a gamble with this one though since it was so far removed from previous titles, and they should have remembered the launch of DoW2 and been a bit more cautious with how far they pushed that envelope.
I'm not trying to say if you like the game you are wrong, that's a silly argument to make against something subjective like enjoyment, but from a business standpoint looking at the numbers (Which is the most concrete thing we can look at as players for the state and health of the game) the gamble hasn't paid off, and is at best struggling to keep its head above water.
They are moving in the right direction, but its been slow. I can't tell you the reason as to why its slow, but I feel its more that the studio had to completely change gears once it became more than apparent that the general audience wasn't exceptionally pleased with the finished product.
Brichals
I don't think they're going slow, there's a new update every 2-3 weeks. If this keeps up we'll have twice as much content in 6 months and the game price will come down. I don't mind saying that I paid for a beta because it's industry standard now. A lot of games are still calling themselves beta after 2-3 years nowadays and people seem to love that idea (things like Northgard for example I think).
The only real concern I have is that this game lasts for 6 months more before the general demoralisation causes Relic to just pack the game in. Personally I think it's a mistake to make a new DoW game, they should have made Impossible Creatures 2.
Strangequark
I personally think that it isn't morale, but more financial reasons that relic would pack up and move onto something else. Considering that as long as they have someone working on the game there is going to be payroll coming out of the bank, and since relic doesn't have direct control over the purse strings (Sega holds those) it probably isn't even going to be up to them as a studio when that decision is made.
CANNED_F3TUS
You are absolutly right. DoWs lifeblood never really was its PVP but its PVE. So adding coop and a decent campaign will boost the numbers and the only thing PVPers want is new races and balance patches.
Amoc
I'm generally on the same page with you on a lot of posts but I don't think Relic has abandoned this game and I'd be willing to guarantee that there will be a DoW IV.
I'll agree that I personally don' think the current iteration of DoW III will warrant significant long-term investment (like an expansion under the same formula, or long-term DLC rollouts), but saying that DoW III has killed the brand I believe vastly underestimates the strength of both the 40k and the DoW IP.
Pudding
Part of the problem Relic ran into is that high tier players buy the game the same number of times as lower tiered players, and the game isn't (apparently) interesting to many lower tiered players.
Strangequark
Well it was more about me discussing at least the reasons that a company may move onto a different product. It's a different thread where I was talking about sequels and new games, and how other studios of similar size to relic set their benchmark at 2 million sold copies to justify the money and time spent on a games sequel. I made sure when I was making that argument to show that it's different for each game and studio but that the overall benchmark is profitability that governs that metric. Without knowing what the overall budget was for a game we can only make guesses, and I used capcom as a publisher and the street fighter studio as my template.
Toonicker
You may not like it Strangequark, and that's fine whatever. But the OP likes it and here you are trying to sway his opinion to match your opinion.
Thats part of the problem with this game, people will say it's all relics fault blah blah, well you know what? it takes 2 to argue, and I myself don't want to play this game because of the sour community.
Strangequark
If you read my actual response to the OP, and not to the person questioning on whether my opinion was valid you'd see that I was correcting the blanket statements and conjecture. I'm glad he likes the game, it needs as many players as possible, but to say I was trying to sway his opinion. The OP is the one who said if someone has an issue with the game they need to just leave. How is that helping anyone in a constructive way? How can you blame the consumer for fracturing the fan base? They didn't make the game, they all had their own expectations, but to say that the community is sour because of the community that's silly. That isn't something relic wanted either, they weren't sitting around during the dev cycle discussing how to shoot themselves in the foot. That's also a silly stance to take. The product with all of its good intentions is what's at fault. Saying that its the consumers fault for not liking a product is... It makes my head hurt. It's exactly those same false superlatives that can play just as much a roll in keeping the fanbase fractured.
Strangequark
@Toonicker I'm posting the OP's post, and my response below. Go ahead and take a read because that is the only back and forth I had with the OP before someone stepped in questioning the validity of my own opinion because they were under a false impression about game ownership.