@GiggleHz said:
i wish it wasnt the case but there is no bringing this game back..is there any example of any game coming back from death???
Dawn of War 2, it was such a trainwreck on multiplayer for the first few months, so much that games were rarer than you'd think and if you got one then it'd likely have been laggy. Even its singleplayer was plagued with bugs that weren't fixed until two months later. If not for the "There is only War" update, and eventually Last Stand, Dawn of War 2 wouldn't have survived.
*EDIT - don't get me started on the Chaos Rising trainwreck in multiplayer when it came out...I still have nightmares of OP chaos with cheap options.
@PhilthyPhilPhD said:
That's not how steamspy works though. Steamspy takes a sample of steam accounts each day and estimates the number of owners from a game based on that sample size. That's why the numbers fluctuate each day and can even go down. Saying that it means the people are refunding in massive numbers means you don't understand the methodology. If you looks at lots of games you can see the same thing. The numbers go up and down for each one, it's because at the end of the day steamspy is only estimating the number of owners.
I agree steamspy number might have different interpertation, but this up and down trend is fitted my firend list activity as well, that 67 people brought the game at start, only 31 of them still own the game. 67 people is not a small number of sample.
That's still anecdotal. I've had the number of friends who own the game only go up on my friends list and none of them have refunded the game. It's not really relevant when we're talking about literally thousands of people. I'm sorry to say (for your argument) but 67 is a small sample statistically speaking.
@PhilthyPhilPhD said:
That's still anecdotal. I've had the number of friends who own the game only go up on my friends list and none of them have refunded the game. It's not really relevant when we're talking about literally thousands of people. I'm sorry to say (for your argument) but 67 is a small sample statistically speaking.
What I descirble from my firendlist is a fact that i observed, From this observation i make a assumption, bear this in mind, you cant prove "thousands of people" not following this trend as much as i cant prove it follow this trend.
i believe this is going to a stupied direction which i created at first place, lets stopped here.
Either somebody or Relic gave me a 50% off coupon for this trainwreck ... Can I give it to someone else and how? Also if anyone is crazy enough to actually buy this game PM me and I will consider giving it to you.
Refund the game and save money for TW:WH 2 which is coming soon this September. Relic is busy working on AOE 4 atm they will prolly drop the game very soon. Its very sad but its how life works...There is nothing we can do now the game is dead. Thats a fact u all have to accept
@DmonBlu said:
Refund the game and save money for TW:WH 2 which is coming soon this September. Relic is busy working on AOE 4 atm they will prolly drop the game very soon. Its very sad but its how life works...There is nothing we can do now the game is dead. Thats a fact u all have to accept
It is very weird that Relic will develop AOE 4, would have been nice if the studio would work to polish dow3 since it lacks, starting from the UI, observer mode, gameplay, various bugs etc. And it also lacks content, I highly doubt that Relic will be able to push AOE 4 and also develope good expansions for Dow3 in such a short time frame.
Guess now we need to accept the fact that dow3 doesn't represent the main priority and they are already ready to get over it, considering the bad reviews the game received it is the wise option for them.
But for us who still love this game? Why can't we have basic features added?
@Mr_Ruin said:
These asshats destroyed Dawn of War and now they will ++heresy redacted++ all over Age of Empires? Dear God, please save me from this reality ...
Sry to say, but this a Life. And Life is never full of Roses. And never should be.
You'll never be a truly mature without some torment and suffering in Life.
@Mr_Ruin said:
These asshats destroyed Dawn of War and now they will ++heresy redacted++ all over Age of Empires? Dear God, please save me from this reality ...
Sry to say, but this a Life. And Life is never full of Roses. And never should be.
You'll never be a truly mature without some torment and suffering in Life.
There is torment and there are these asshats destroying RTS genre.
@Mr_Ruin said:
These asshats destroyed Dawn of War and now they will ++heresy redacted++ all over Age of Empires? Dear God, please save me from this reality ...
Sry to say, but this a Life. And Life is never full of Roses. And never should be.
You'll never be a truly mature without some torment and suffering in Life.
There is torment and there are these asshats destroying RTS genre.
Sry, but for God himself, some torment its fine if you can get truly mature. You better leave this forum if you don't like everything what's going.
Guess now we need to accept the fact that dow3 doesn't represent the main priority and they are already ready to get over it, considering the bad reviews the game received it is the wise option for them.
Probably it's the reality, now my hopes are start to going in the modders and with some popular mod this game can be have more players and maybe relic will do some DLC race
considering how limited relics mod tools are compared to those of past games like coh1 due to all the intentional limitations, there isn't much to hope for unless they are willing to change that.
but seeing them using the same system that they used for coh2 (one that even their engineers said is too complicated to work with), the chance for that to change is pretty much not existing.
Guess now we need to accept the fact that dow3 doesn't represent the main priority and they are already ready to get over it, considering the bad reviews the game received it is the wise option for them.
But for us who still love this game? Why can't we have basic features added?
Its just player reviews tho, not from game review sides. Sure peoples opinion matters too, but in the end sales count i dont think dow3 sold bad and as long as they can earn anykind of money with it they would be stupid not to do so.
@nachocheese said:
considering how limited relics mod tools are compared to those of past games like coh1 due to all the intentional limitations, there isn't much to hope for unless they are willing to change that.
but seeing them using the same system that they used for coh2 (one that even their engineers said is too complicated to work with), the chance for that to change is pretty much not existing.
I say this periodically to you, @nachocheese, but Relic has rarely offered a comprehensive suite of modding tools. The only reason modding took off with games like CoH and even vDoW was due to user-created tools. Where would CoH modding be without Corsix or Mannerheim, eh?
Relic haven't limited anything more than they have historically limited the tools they release. Releasing internal tools for hobbyist usage is incredibly difficult due to the requirements placed on in-house tools and the environments that house them.
It doesn't surprise me if developers have at some point said that the in-house tools are complicated to work with. Making a game is hard. Modding it is infinitely easier. Making tools to facilitate that modding is also, therefore, difficult. Having released actual tools for DoW III modding, I can say this more certainly than ever
its not only about offering tools, the most important thing is allowing things to be done at all. that is something relic did in the past, starting with coh2 they intentionally locked down everything.
If they would have done that with their previous games, dow and coh1 would have never gotten anything.
coh1 tools still worked fine for it as proven during the alpha already, instead relic decided to go with a system that they cant even work on properly anymore due to how complicated it became with all the different packs.
Its not the tools being complicated (those didn't change at all) but the way mods are handled, which was changed for no technical reason at all.
as someone who spent a lot of time with people who were working on the coh2 tools, i can tell you that fundamental changes are needed if the whole system is to be used for more than just simple stat changes and some skins.
Trying to separate every filetype into its own mod pack pretty much makes it impossible to allow for any big things to happen due to name conflicts and so on.
the small amount of user friendliness gained compared to the huge headache for the devs was simply not worth it and only hurts the community.
I could understand why companies weren't always a fan of people using third-party tools to modify the game. It can lead to exploits and other issues. The trade-off of allowing unrestricted access to modding vs. allowing for exploits and abusive content is a difficult one to make, and I ultimately respect the developers' choice in this manner. I can understand if you go the other way on this, too.
In terms of the packs, I don't have enough experience with the CoH 2 tools to comment, but I'm familiar with both Torchlight (2) and Civilisation (5 and beyond) and how they interface with the Steam Workshop. The short way of putting it would be that the Steam Workshop benefits from this kind of limited deployment. I'm not saying what they did on CoH 2 is perfect, but I will always say doing stuff like this is always done against a budget (be it time, resources, or whatever). So if you have to structure your community content in some kind of package-based way, and it has to be compatible with Steamworks, then I could see how imperfect systems can be created. For example, modding certain things in Civilisation 5 ( / Beyond Earth, which is what I modded for) is incredibly difficult. It's a combination of how the game engine works, what stuff is available to modders, and how you package that into a Steam package.
Of course they're going to lock down modding. Why would you buy a 5€ commander tree when you can just download a mod that gives you everything for free and better ? It will be the same for DoW3.
Much to the chagrin of everyone who's been saying they were abandoning the game already, as well as saying that they'll never release modding tools of any kind.
In the past however, most of the anti-tamper and mod crackdowns were because of Kirby Era Games Workshop.
@Lockerd said:
and yet they are releasing modding tools.
Much to the chagrin of everyone who's been saying they were abandoning the game already, as well as saying that they'll never release modding tools of any kind.
In the past however, most of the anti-tamper and mod crackdowns were because of Kirby Era Games Workshop.
"Game sUx, give us mod tools!"
"OMG you are releasing mod tools! How dare you leave it to modders to fix the game!"
Heres another one.
"Lack of content! The price is too high!"
"50% off coupon? Nice try relic, but I'm still not getting it!"
How can you know that the game "sucks" if you havent even tried it. I know many people including myself who enjoy the game.
Also why do you even bother to stick around in the official dow3 forum if you are not interested to play or buy the game? Just to trash talk? Well done.
@Spirit said:
How can you know that the game "sucks" if you havent even tried it. I know many people including myself who enjoy the game.
Also why do you even bother to stick around in the official dow3 forum if you are not interested to play or buy the game? Just to trash talk? Well done.
Most of the hate train leftovers still roam the steam discussions as well, hijacking threads and complaing about censorship...I mean I get it if a moderator is too overzealous but let's be real here people, there were at least a dozen steam charts threads posted by the same three people every day, and those people are the ones who mostly complained about censorship.
Same thing here, they're going well out of their way to find things NOT IN THE GAME, to HATE about the game.
Week 1 - GAME IS DEAD DO NOT BUY!!!!
Week 2 - THEY ABANDONED THE GAME DO NOT BUY IT!!!
Week 3 - HAHAHA THIS GAME IS DYING THEY DON'T HAVE LAUNCH DAY NUMBERS ANYMORE!!!
Week 4 - relative silence as the majority of the alt accounts and haters have left or been banned.
Week 5 - Update drops and it's back to week 1-3.
Now it's just people actively Looking for anything at all to claim the game is a failure and dying, hell for a solid three weeks people believed Dawn of War III was a dead failure financially because of a faked reply in the steam forums. Initially people believed dawn of war 2 somehow sold 750k copies on steam when it launched...which would have been nearly HALF of the active userbase on steam at the time. Because of this people believed the actually successful 210k (mid june) sales was an abysmal failure. At the same time there was even tugging about how Dawn of War 2 was tops in the charts on steam...which wasn't saying much because it was three days after launch and lost planet was on there too. It didn't hold that spot for more than six days before it was punted down.
Then people take Archwarhammers badly overcharged video as if it were pure gospel, his comparisons to company of heroes was just a bad one...I mean think of it, which is infinitely more popular? World War 2 or Warhammer 40K?.
Now people are trying to draw a death knell with the announcement of Age of Empires...it's all the same ++heresy redacted++, it's going to repeat until the end of time.
and it's not like Dawn of War is the only franchise that gets this kind of reaction from its own fanbase, pretty much every Warhammer 40K game has had nothing but irrational hate on launch, look at battlefleet gothic armada for instance. It didn't have the size of dawn of war so it didn't get such a huge reaction true, but it was pretty much ++heresy redacted++ on since its launch and for no real good reasons. Some games like Deathwing deserved a lot of the hatred they got, but mostly because of performance issues. I don't ever remember a single 40K game that was praised to high heavens on its launch, and it usually takes a while for most of the hate to either move on or just die out...I mean look at Dawn of War 2, for many years IT Was hated by the dawn of war community, yet now people are screaming that it's always smelled of roses and that there was never anything wrong with it.
@MajBumWhistler said:
What i find funny after this trainwreck people are hopeful for AOE4. Same publisher people, expect the same.
what I find funny is how Microsoft is doing a full 180 on the reasons for shutting down Ensemble. I remember the announcement with painful memories, they shut them down because RTS's weren't selling well and consoles were. Now PC's have begun to claim a huge segment of the gaming market and still growing, now RTS's have a new lease on life.
But there's still no Ensemble anymore, and so they're outsourcing the games to numerous SEGA companies and developers.
@HiveMind said:
Just wait for Iron Harvest, that game looks awesome. Looks more of a relic titles then DoW3.
I have a feeling people are hyping that game up way too much. And all people saw was a teaser and its execution could have been much better to. That slogan in the end made me cringe it was so bad. Could be good but it also could be garbage.
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Comments
CANNED_F3TUS
Chaos in vanilla is still OP :DDDDD
Plague champ and plague marine spam FTW.
greedogre
I agree steamspy number might have different interpertation, but this up and down trend is fitted my firend list activity as well, that 67 people brought the game at start, only 31 of them still own the game. 67 people is not a small number of sample.
PhilthyPhilPhD
That's still anecdotal. I've had the number of friends who own the game only go up on my friends list and none of them have refunded the game. It's not really relevant when we're talking about literally thousands of people. I'm sorry to say (for your argument) but 67 is a small sample statistically speaking.
greedogre
What I descirble from my firendlist is a fact that i observed, From this observation i make a assumption, bear this in mind, you cant prove "thousands of people" not following this trend as much as i cant prove it follow this trend.
i believe this is going to a stupied direction which i created at first place, lets stopped here.
Mr_Ruin
Either somebody or Relic gave me a 50% off coupon for this trainwreck ... Can I give it to someone else and how? Also if anyone is crazy enough to actually buy this game PM me and I will consider giving it to you.
DmonBlu
Refund the game and save money for TW:WH 2 which is coming soon this September. Relic is busy working on AOE 4 atm they will prolly drop the game very soon. Its very sad but its how life works...There is nothing we can do now the game is dead. Thats a fact u all have to accept
n0ave_
It is very weird that Relic will develop AOE 4, would have been nice if the studio would work to polish dow3 since it lacks, starting from the UI, observer mode, gameplay, various bugs etc. And it also lacks content, I highly doubt that Relic will be able to push AOE 4 and also develope good expansions for Dow3 in such a short time frame.
Guess now we need to accept the fact that dow3 doesn't represent the main priority and they are already ready to get over it, considering the bad reviews the game received it is the wise option for them.
But for us who still love this game? Why can't we have basic features added?
Mr_Ruin
These asshats destroyed Dawn of War and now they will ++heresy redacted++ all over Age of Empires? Dear God, please save me from this reality ...
Draconix
Sry to say, but this a Life. And Life is never full of Roses. And never should be.
You'll never be a truly mature without some torment and suffering in Life.
Mr_Ruin
There is torment and there are these asshats destroying RTS genre.
Draconix
Sry, but for God himself, some torment its fine if you can get truly mature. You better leave this forum if you don't like everything what's going.
Katitof
Its a console rts, if you think dow3 is simplified, just look at halo wars and how much more rts can be simplified. That is how console rts look like.
Reyseth
Probably it's the reality, now my hopes are start to going in the modders and with some popular mod this game can be have more players and maybe relic will do some DLC race
nachocheese
considering how limited relics mod tools are compared to those of past games like coh1 due to all the intentional limitations, there isn't much to hope for unless they are willing to change that.
but seeing them using the same system that they used for coh2 (one that even their engineers said is too complicated to work with), the chance for that to change is pretty much not existing.
Spirit
Its just player reviews tho, not from game review sides. Sure peoples opinion matters too, but in the end sales count i dont think dow3 sold bad and as long as they can earn anykind of money with it they would be stupid not to do so.
Gorb
I say this periodically to you, @nachocheese, but Relic has rarely offered a comprehensive suite of modding tools. The only reason modding took off with games like CoH and even vDoW was due to user-created tools. Where would CoH modding be without Corsix or Mannerheim, eh?
Relic haven't limited anything more than they have historically limited the tools they release. Releasing internal tools for hobbyist usage is incredibly difficult due to the requirements placed on in-house tools and the environments that house them.
It doesn't surprise me if developers have at some point said that the in-house tools are complicated to work with. Making a game is hard. Modding it is infinitely easier. Making tools to facilitate that modding is also, therefore, difficult. Having released actual tools for DoW III modding, I can say this more certainly than ever
nachocheese
its not only about offering tools, the most important thing is allowing things to be done at all. that is something relic did in the past, starting with coh2 they intentionally locked down everything.
If they would have done that with their previous games, dow and coh1 would have never gotten anything.
coh1 tools still worked fine for it as proven during the alpha already, instead relic decided to go with a system that they cant even work on properly anymore due to how complicated it became with all the different packs.
Its not the tools being complicated (those didn't change at all) but the way mods are handled, which was changed for no technical reason at all.
as someone who spent a lot of time with people who were working on the coh2 tools, i can tell you that fundamental changes are needed if the whole system is to be used for more than just simple stat changes and some skins.
Trying to separate every filetype into its own mod pack pretty much makes it impossible to allow for any big things to happen due to name conflicts and so on.
the small amount of user friendliness gained compared to the huge headache for the devs was simply not worth it and only hurts the community.
Gorb
I could understand why companies weren't always a fan of people using third-party tools to modify the game. It can lead to exploits and other issues. The trade-off of allowing unrestricted access to modding vs. allowing for exploits and abusive content is a difficult one to make, and I ultimately respect the developers' choice in this manner. I can understand if you go the other way on this, too.
In terms of the packs, I don't have enough experience with the CoH 2 tools to comment, but I'm familiar with both Torchlight (2) and Civilisation (5 and beyond) and how they interface with the Steam Workshop. The short way of putting it would be that the Steam Workshop benefits from this kind of limited deployment. I'm not saying what they did on CoH 2 is perfect, but I will always say doing stuff like this is always done against a budget (be it time, resources, or whatever). So if you have to structure your community content in some kind of package-based way, and it has to be compatible with Steamworks, then I could see how imperfect systems can be created. For example, modding certain things in Civilisation 5 ( / Beyond Earth, which is what I modded for) is incredibly difficult. It's a combination of how the game engine works, what stuff is available to modders, and how you package that into a Steam package.
Ragarnoy
Of course they're going to lock down modding. Why would you buy a 5€ commander tree when you can just download a mod that gives you everything for free and better ? It will be the same for DoW3.
Lockerd
and yet they are releasing modding tools.
Much to the chagrin of everyone who's been saying they were abandoning the game already, as well as saying that they'll never release modding tools of any kind.
In the past however, most of the anti-tamper and mod crackdowns were because of Kirby Era Games Workshop.
charlando
"Game sUx, give us mod tools!"
"OMG you are releasing mod tools! How dare you leave it to modders to fix the game!"
Heres another one.
"Lack of content! The price is too high!"
"50% off coupon? Nice try relic, but I'm still not getting it!"
Spirit
How can you know that the game "sucks" if you havent even tried it. I know many people including myself who enjoy the game.
Also why do you even bother to stick around in the official dow3 forum if you are not interested to play or buy the game? Just to trash talk? Well done.
Lockerd
Most of the hate train leftovers still roam the steam discussions as well, hijacking threads and complaing about censorship...I mean I get it if a moderator is too overzealous but let's be real here people, there were at least a dozen steam charts threads posted by the same three people every day, and those people are the ones who mostly complained about censorship.
Same thing here, they're going well out of their way to find things NOT IN THE GAME, to HATE about the game.
Week 1 - GAME IS DEAD DO NOT BUY!!!!
Week 2 - THEY ABANDONED THE GAME DO NOT BUY IT!!!
Week 3 - HAHAHA THIS GAME IS DYING THEY DON'T HAVE LAUNCH DAY NUMBERS ANYMORE!!!
Week 4 - relative silence as the majority of the alt accounts and haters have left or been banned.
Week 5 - Update drops and it's back to week 1-3.
Now it's just people actively Looking for anything at all to claim the game is a failure and dying, hell for a solid three weeks people believed Dawn of War III was a dead failure financially because of a faked reply in the steam forums. Initially people believed dawn of war 2 somehow sold 750k copies on steam when it launched...which would have been nearly HALF of the active userbase on steam at the time. Because of this people believed the actually successful 210k (mid june) sales was an abysmal failure. At the same time there was even tugging about how Dawn of War 2 was tops in the charts on steam...which wasn't saying much because it was three days after launch and lost planet was on there too. It didn't hold that spot for more than six days before it was punted down.
Then people take Archwarhammers badly overcharged video as if it were pure gospel, his comparisons to company of heroes was just a bad one...I mean think of it, which is infinitely more popular? World War 2 or Warhammer 40K?.
Now people are trying to draw a death knell with the announcement of Age of Empires...it's all the same ++heresy redacted++, it's going to repeat until the end of time.
and it's not like Dawn of War is the only franchise that gets this kind of reaction from its own fanbase, pretty much every Warhammer 40K game has had nothing but irrational hate on launch, look at battlefleet gothic armada for instance. It didn't have the size of dawn of war so it didn't get such a huge reaction true, but it was pretty much ++heresy redacted++ on since its launch and for no real good reasons. Some games like Deathwing deserved a lot of the hatred they got, but mostly because of performance issues. I don't ever remember a single 40K game that was praised to high heavens on its launch, and it usually takes a while for most of the hate to either move on or just die out...I mean look at Dawn of War 2, for many years IT Was hated by the dawn of war community, yet now people are screaming that it's always smelled of roses and that there was never anything wrong with it.
MajBumWhistler
What i find funny after this trainwreck people are hopeful for AOE4. Same publisher people, expect the same.
Lockerd
what I find funny is how Microsoft is doing a full 180 on the reasons for shutting down Ensemble. I remember the announcement with painful memories, they shut them down because RTS's weren't selling well and consoles were. Now PC's have begun to claim a huge segment of the gaming market and still growing, now RTS's have a new lease on life.
But there's still no Ensemble anymore, and so they're outsourcing the games to numerous SEGA companies and developers.
CANNED_F3TUS
I have a feeling people are hyping that game up way too much. And all people saw was a teaser and its execution could have been much better to. That slogan in the end made me cringe it was so bad. Could be good but it also could be garbage.