@Stoner said: @Katitof
Can I ask how many hours you spent in PvP overall?
Why does it matter? People have criticism of the game without even playing it, and we strive to defend their right to say it - even if we disagree with what they say.
Maybe leave the attempted personal slights out of a debate about balance?
Playing something can breed a familiarity, even an expertise, with the game. But you can also spend hours playing something and not become skilled at it. It's a false correlation. People are proven right by dint of their insight being accurate overall, their insight isn't automatically proven right because they had enough hours in PvP to satisfy your curiosity
@Gorb
"People have criticism of the game without even playing it, and we strive to defend their right to say it - even if we disagree with what they say."
Nice, that's why so many debates aren't going anywhere... And yes, Gorb, I didn't ask anything offensive, playtime has MUCH to say about judgement value of personal opinion. It's easier to check this than correct on each statement which will be futile in the end anyway. And as a friendly advice, you need to spend a LOT more time in this game as well, because it's so great, and design is so perfect, right?
@Stoner said:
Despite what anyone here has to say, we can't deny facts. BaByuByu pointed out, I quote:
i'm not talking about balance
'balance' is very delicate and complex,can not judge a game with a little
so I put the balance back and say something about the game itself
And also this:
many of my high-ranked friends say dow3 become a tedious and boring game
and the number of current player proves it
the 50% sale coupons make 800~1000 number of current player
then after patch? 400~600 current player
people are cruel..a game with a problem? they just leave the game
Balance is the least of the problems with this game currently. I assume that main discouragement and frustration with patch happened because people were waiting for some big shift with mechanics which didn't happen, we got another standard balance that switched metas a little and that was it. He's obviously not the only one who has that opinion, and the fact that more people left this game post patch proves it at some degree.
Considering what Vindi says about meta, I take upon myself to rephrase this a little:
"Sometimes I meet players with lower skill than me (or sometimes I feel ballsy), so I can steamroll them with pretty much anything, that's why I don't 100% of times play meta".
BaByuByu plays meta like 99% of times, at least that's what I see on his streams, thus his WL is sky high. What's there to argue really?
Worst thing to do now is to deny obvious issues, cover our eyes and ears, and say how great everything is, while we slowly get to 10 players online in prime time.
And please, let's not turn this convo into e-peen competition...
The problem is that the things concerning the game mechanics remain unanswered from relic. What has been said here and fans comments are totaly ignored. The efforts are on skins and patches which won't change anything.
However, some people here said , relic cant do this and that but we didin't have any feedback from relic. By completely changing dumb eco system and some introductions from dow 1 features would be a great start. That will probably need ressources but if they had put the efforts in that instead of releasing useless balance patches at least it would have been a nice effort.
That's because there is nothing wrong with mechanics, they work perfectly fine and as intended.
Its people who expect completely different mechanics who have issues with them. There is certain vocal crowd of people who don't accept DoW3 at all and scream to forcefully reshape it into something it was never meant to be.
These "fans" should remain ignored, because they departed the plane of reality.
Eco system is greatly improved version of DOW1, DoW2 and CoH systems, so I don't see what your issue is with it. It literally took best parts of the former and put them together here with finding a viable solution to have slower, micro oriented early game and huge armies in late game, something no other RTS managed to accomplish without forcing players to have 10 bases and million workers on the map.
Exactly the same with "DoW1 features".
WHAT DoW1 features? Attaching hero to the squad? Makes no sense because of how large squads are and how powerful elites are supposed to be.
Morale? It existed so you don't just reinforce in combat until the end of time.
Armor and damage types? It was imbalanced cluster*uck.
Cover was extremely primitive, but needed map enhancer as most of the maps were literally flat surfaces with an odd hill here and there.
Campaign model is copied Winter Assault one, THE most acclaimed campaign in the whole DoW series.
Weapon upgrades? Only imperium factions had them and only because the game lacked actual unit variety.
The so missed "DoW1 features" are all workarounds due to limits of the game, not amazing miracle solutions to all problems, these features are not in DoW3, because DoW3 does not have all the problems DoW1 had to deal with.
You are like a broken cd. These are not realistic arguments, they are tainted with your personal opinions. It's not true that game mechanics are ok. Game is ultra boring and repetitive. By the way dow 3 is a continuity of dow1and dow2. And dow 1 is a piece of art , you cant just ignore it and bash dow 1 while worshping dow3. Dow 3 is like chopped horse, no legs, no brain just a infinite colors to dress the horse. Bah with 500 players it wont go anywere.
We all sound like a broken record
Limits of the game ? Why we didint have input from relic for that ? In my eyes you don't have any credibility to speak for relic.
Dow3 dont have problems of dow1 because it dosent have any features nor complexity. Hey we have problems with sync skills, lets remove it. We have problems with armor types lets remove them. We have problems with camera rotation, lets lock it. We have problems with dynamic cover lets use staticbumble covers.
These changes were good for DoW 3. It would have been great if they could have kept sync kills but it was ++heresy redacted++ honestly and would have takin forever to program to be fluid or even remotely ok.
Armor and damage types never found balance and is probably the main reason why DoW 2s pvp was filled with fukkery shenanigens.
Finaly , lets use matches and skin them with wh40 racec.++heresy redacted++, they dont have any clue how to tesolve problems nor how to make an interesting fun game.
The game still got some ways to go sure but i wouldnt say DoW 3 isnt fun or not interesting.
It's worth the risk to lose 500 players and change mechanics to bring other players. In this situation is really best solution imo.
No it is not the best solution. The people that love DoW 1 and 2 wont go back to DoW 3. (Maybe they will but not likely unless we get expan)
And that is fine with me. The only frickin thing that would happen is arch ++heresy redacted++ hammer make another gloating video and the comment section filled with more stupidity.
Relic shouldnt fold to these tards. Relic wanted something new and i respect that so now they gotta keep up the work and it will become a gem of its own. DoW 3 will get its own solid fanbase and DoW 3 will shape up to be a great game.
@Stoner said: @Gorb
"People have criticism of the game without even playing it, and we strive to defend their right to say it - even if we disagree with what they say."
Nice, that's why so many debates aren't going anywhere... And yes, Gorb, I didn't ask anything offensive, playtime has MUCH to say about judgement value of personal opinion. It's easier to check this than correct on each statement which will be futile in the end anyway. And as a friendly advice, you need to spend a LOT more time in this game as well, because it's so great, and design is so perfect, right?
Nobody "needs" to spend more time doing anything.
The attitude you're giving me kinda proves your aim with it; it wasn't exactly friendly, was it? There's only one reason people dredge up playtime for, and that's to discredit opinions based on it, instead of debating the actual opinion(s) posted. There's a fallacy by that name.
I do many things instead of playing video games. My "most played" game on Steam is only three hundred hours or so, over half a decade or more (Borderlands 2, whenever that was released). I don't have to justify myself, really; DoW III is a game I'm going to be playing for some time to come. But it's really telling, the agenda you have, with the the way your posts have been going of late. It's disappointing, and I won't waste either of our time with this further. You were much more constructive before you started relying on this personal route, and it's come out of frustration with the game, I think. Not the way to go about things.
@CANNED_F3TUS said:
Relic wanted something new and i respect that so now they gotta keep up the work and it will become a gem of its own. DoW 3 will get its own solid fanbase and DoW 3 will shape up to be a great game.
We all wanted something new but not the colorful horse with chopped legs.
Not from what i been seeing. Most DoW 1 and 2 players wanted a reskin of their favorite game.
@CANNED_F3TUS said:
Relic wanted something new and i respect that so now they gotta keep up the work and it will become a gem of its own. DoW 3 will get its own solid fanbase and DoW 3 will shape up to be a great game.
We all wanted something new but not the colorful horse with chopped legs.
Not from what i been seeing. Most DoW 1 and 2 players wanted a reskin of their favorite game.
No matter what Relic did, a huge part of the community would be aggravated. So they just chose to seek a new fanbase, for a new game.
Also warlock ork. Looking back to DoW 1 and you saying its a piece of art. It was a great game dont get me wrong but it also was the first game. People at that time didnt care about balance, pathing, laned maps, lore inaccuracies etc etc etc. It was like a fresh bag of chips. People are gonna tear that ++heresy redacted++ up because nobody had expectations. But looking back now i did wish they would have done a few things differently or better.
@CANNED_F3TUS said:
Relic wanted something new and i respect that so now they gotta keep up the work and it will become a gem of its own. DoW 3 will get its own solid fanbase and DoW 3 will shape up to be a great game.
We all wanted something new but not the colorful horse with chopped legs.
Not from what i been seeing. Most DoW 1 and 2 players wanted a reskin of their favorite game.
No matter what Relic did, a huge part of the community would be aggravated. So they just chose to seek a new fanbase, for a new game.
Yeah you are right. Comes with splitting the community up like that. Cant please everybody right?
@Stoner said: @Gorb
"People have criticism of the game without even playing it, and we strive to defend their right to say it - even if we disagree with what they say."
Nice, that's why so many debates aren't going anywhere... And yes, Gorb, I didn't ask anything offensive, playtime has MUCH to say about judgement value of personal opinion. It's easier to check this than correct on each statement which will be futile in the end anyway. And as a friendly advice, you need to spend a LOT more time in this game as well, because it's so great, and design is so perfect, right?
Nobody "needs" to spend more time doing anything.
The attitude you're giving me kinda proves your aim with it; it wasn't exactly friendly, was it? There's only one reason people dredge up playtime for, and that's to discredit opinions based on it, instead of debating the actual opinion(s) posted. There's a fallacy by that name.
I do many things instead of playing video games. My "most played" game on Steam is only three hundred hours or so, over half a decade or more (Borderlands 2, whenever that was released). I don't have to justify myself, really; DoW III is a game I'm going to be playing for some time to come. But it's really telling, the agenda you have, with the the way your posts have been going of late. It's disappointing, and I won't waste either of our time with this further. You were much more constructive before you started relying on this personal route, and it's come out of frustration with the game, I think. Not the way to go about things.
You assume too much about my attitude. And yes, well designed and fun games in general people usually don't abandon in heaps, they want to play it rather than discuss it.
That's because there is nothing wrong with mechanics, they work perfectly fine and as intended.
Its people who expect completely different mechanics who have issues with them. There is certain vocal crowd of people who don't accept DoW3 at all and scream to forcefully reshape it into something it was never meant to be.
These "fans" should remain ignored, because they departed the plane of reality.
Eco system is greatly improved version of DOW1, DoW2 and CoH systems, so I don't see what your issue is with it. It literally took best parts of the former and put them together here with finding a viable solution to have slower, micro oriented early game and huge armies in late game, something no other RTS managed to accomplish without forcing players to have 10 bases and million workers on the map.
Exactly the same with "DoW1 features".
WHAT DoW1 features? Attaching hero to the squad? Makes no sense because of how large squads are and how powerful elites are supposed to be.
Morale? It existed so you don't just reinforce in combat until the end of time.
Armor and damage types? It was imbalanced cluster*uck.
Cover was extremely primitive, but needed map enhancer as most of the maps were literally flat surfaces with an odd hill here and there.
Campaign model is copied Winter Assault one, THE most acclaimed campaign in the whole DoW series.
Weapon upgrades? Only imperium factions had them and only because the game lacked actual unit variety.
The so missed "DoW1 features" are all workarounds due to limits of the game, not amazing miracle solutions to all problems, these features are not in DoW3, because DoW3 does not have all the problems DoW1 had to deal with.
You are like a broken cd. These are not realistic arguments, they are tainted with your personal opinions. It's not true that game mechanics are ok. Game is ultra boring and repetitive. By the way dow 3 is a continuity of dow1and dow2. And dow 1 is a piece of art , you cant just ignore it and bash dow 1 while worshping dow3. Dow 3 is like chopped horse, no legs, no brain just a infinite colors to dress the horse. Bah with 500 players it wont go anywere.
Its an RTS game, the very nature of gameplay of multiplayer RTS is repetitive, but its only boring if RTS is not your thing.
Go watch some casts from ANY RTS game, you'll see that 95% of people for 95% of time do EXACTLY the same 2-3 strategies over and over and over again, until balance patch comes and changes it.
DoW3 is already better then that since it allows you to use pretty much anything and succeed if your micro is up for it and you can utilize doctrines, @Vindicarex is a prime example of that, breaking the meta, using everything and being able to succeed with it. Go try non meta stuff in SC, see if you'll last until 5th minute.
Limits of the game ? Why we didint have input from relic for that ? In my eyes you don't have any credibility to speak for relic.
It doesn't take lead game designer for Relic to know squad leaders with possible amount of squads you can field is a complete redundancy, or you don't need X more weapon upgrades, when you have X more units that fulfill exactly that role the upgrade would, or DoW2/CoH like cover system would require redesign and rebalance of the whole game.
You simply have to not be completely ignorant to see it.
Dow3 dont have problems of dow1 because it dosent have any features nor complexity. Hey we have problems with sync skills, lets remove it. We have problems with armor types lets remove them. We have problems with camera rotation, lets lock it. We have problems with dynamic cover lets use staticbumble covers.
Define complexity.
100 armor types is a bad type of complexity.
Weapon upgrades are not complexity if a faction has whooping 2 non special/limited infantry units.
Sync-kills are not complexity, but an eye candy with bad implications on balance, which whole existence of DoW2 proved.
Camera rotation have completely NO effect on how you play the game.
I've already explained cover above.
DoW1 had no complexity at all in regards to map design.
Finaly , lets use matches and skin them with wh40 racec.++heresy redacted++, they dont have any clue how to tesolve problems nor how to make an interesting fun game.
It's worth the risk to lose 500 players and change mechanics to bring other players. In this situation is really best solution imo.
No, its not worth it, when it requires you to re-make the game completely and that's what delusional fanboys of DoW2 and 1 want.
Hell, delusional fanboys of DoW1 aren't even able to explain what DoW is to them, they just rant that DoW3 is not it and keep screaming about player made mod with stuff that NEVER was meant nor balanced for original game.
I am able to explain my points and back them up with what we have in game.
Can you do the same for your case instead of drooling around, screaming "MUH DOW, MUH GRIMDURK, MUH UA MOD, MUH COMPLEXITY" without explaining even a singular point for it?
If you are not able to see the obvious that's not my problem.
I am going to throw this right back at you.
You are anachronistic "grandpa" who praises "good old days, when we had our horses and our wagons and it was great, not you younglings and your cars which do not even need a good old horse to move"
Contrary to you, I am able to back my points up.
You have effectively confirmed what I've said and have thrown the towel, especially in regards to the point about DoW1 fanboys being completely unable to say what DoW is for them (as you obviously dodged that as well, trying to be snippy).
Thank you sir, I think I'm done with you, its unlikely anything other then blind nostalgia will come out of you anytime soon.
Need to lose 200 more players and then we'll have the same player base as DoW 2 lol
And this game was released April, this year. April. It's not even half a year.
So are we going for a quick abandonment of the game or will soon release a statement about the future of the game (if there's any)?
Do tell us soon Relic. Frustration is indeed kicking in.
@Stoner said: @Katitof
Can I ask how many hours you spent in PvP overall?
Why does it matter? People have criticism of the game without even playing it, and we strive to defend their right to say it - even if we disagree with what they say.
Maybe leave the attempted personal slights out of a debate about balance?
Playing something can breed a familiarity, even an expertise, with the game. But you can also spend hours playing something and not become skilled at it. It's a false correlation. People are proven right by dint of their insight being accurate overall, their insight isn't automatically proven right because they had enough hours in PvP to satisfy your curiosity
Opinion post.
Of course experience matters. If you have someone who spends 99% of the their free time telling other people how to play and 0.01% of the time actually playing the game, how are you not going to take that into consideration and use that as valid criticism of their potential lack in perspective in your arguments? In a complex value judgement, there is little else that can be relied upon.
It is not unreasonable to assume that the people who actually do this (and there is always one) could be representative of portion of the population who are neurotic and have mental problems and are fulfilling their social needs on forums like this because nobody can stand them IRL. You can save time dealing with these types by pointing out their obvious flaws and ignoring them rather than address their non-stop heavy mental gymnastics and endless rhetorical fallacies.
.
@Stoner said: @Katitof
Can I ask how many hours you spent in PvP overall?
Why does it matter? People have criticism of the game without even playing it, and we strive to defend their right to say it - even if we disagree with what they say.
Maybe leave the attempted personal slights out of a debate about balance?
Playing something can breed a familiarity, even an expertise, with the game. But you can also spend hours playing something and not become skilled at it. It's a false correlation. People are proven right by dint of their insight being accurate overall, their insight isn't automatically proven right because they had enough hours in PvP to satisfy your curiosity
Opinion post.
Of course experience matters. If you have someone who spends 99% of the their free time telling other people how to play and 0.01% of the time actually playing the game, how are you not going to take that into consideration and use that as valid criticism of their potential lack in perspective in your arguments?
It is not unreasonable to assume that these types people could be representative of portion of the population who are neurotic and have mental problems and are fulfilling their social needs on forums like this because nobody can stand them IRL. You can save time dealing with these types by pointing out their obvious flaws and ignoring them rather than address their non-stop heavy mental gymnastics and endless rhetorical fallacies.
Because, like I said, you can play a game for years and still not be "competent" at it.
This is without even going into the fact of high-level players disagreeing with each other, like we've seen in this thread. But you personally already weight the OP above someone like vindicarex, because you seem to have a personal problem with vindicarex. That's another factor. Someone could have a good and valid point, but word it terribly. Or worse, offensively. Or you could just plain not like them, nomatter the insight they bring tot he table.
There's a difference between "experience matters" and "post your playtime to prove a point". Experience is something that shows regardless of how much you talk about it.
@CANNED_F3TUS said:
Also warlock ork. Looking back to DoW 1 and you saying its a piece of art. It was a great game dont get me wrong but it also was the first game. People at that time didnt care about balance, pathing, laned maps, lore inaccuracies etc etc etc. It was like a fresh bag of chips. People are gonna tear that ++heresy redacted++ up because nobody had expectations. But looking back now i did wish they would have done a few things differently or better.
Yes, balances, but that is not the point. It was awesome competitive and fun game. It had a nice community and no one ever complained about design.
If dow 1 and dow2 fans wanted remake than why relic did the remake of sc2 with wh 40 skins (dow3) ?
At the end I dont think that old fans wont came back if dow3 game mechanics change. And no, no one wanted remake of previous games but when you see this attrocity , it would have been better to remake dow one or two instead.
You made your mind up about DoW 3 you hate it to its very fibre nothing anybody will say will change your mind. Still doesnt mean DoW 3 is a bad game overall.
Fans complained with reason which can ring the bells that they would maybe be back if something changes.
As i mentioned DoW being the first game DoW 1 was so good nobody bothered with questioning its design. Some of it was good some of it was bad but it being the first DoW of its kind nobody asked these questions. The community wasnt split back then either and there was no black sheep to hate on.
@Katitof said:
Weapon upgrades? Only imperium factions had them and only because the game lacked actual unit variety.
The so missed "DoW1 features" are all workarounds due to limits of the game, not amazing miracle solutions to all problems, these features are not in DoW3, because DoW3 does not have all the problems DoW1 had to deal with.
Orks and chaos had weapon upgrades as well, as did dark eldar in DoW1
It doesn't take lead game designer for Relic to know squad leaders with possible amount of squads you can field is a complete redundancy, or you don't need X more weapon upgrades, when you have X more units that fulfill exactly that role the upgrade would, or DoW2/CoH like cover system would require redesign and rebalance of the whole game.
You simply have to not be completely ignorant to see it.
How the hell do squad leaders fulfill the roles of an entirely different squad? What game does this?
Define complexity.
100 armor types is a bad type of complexity.
Weapon upgrades are not complexity if a faction has whooping 2 non special/limited infantry units.
Sync-kills are not complexity, but an eye candy with bad implications on balance, which whole existence of DoW2 proved.
Camera rotation have completely NO effect on how you play the game.
I've already explained cover above.
>
DoW1 had no complexity at all in regards to map design.
Yeah 100 armour types is bad, however none of relic's games had over 100 armour types.
Weapon upgrades can add to complexity, they changed what the tactical squad did in DoW1 and 2.
Sync kills lasted much less than they did in dawn of war 1, and I doubt they had such an impact people seem to describe, I watch casts regularly of dow2 and I have not seen one person in the chat complain about them, they last literally less than 5 seconds.
Camera rotation... you must be joking.... Camera rotation helps how you play a game, maybe rarely but to say it doesn't it just rediculous.
DoW1 did have complexity in map design, it was all just one bloody lane or an open battlefield. This point is just inane.
It is not unreasonable to assume that the people who actually do this (and there is always one) could be representative of portion of the population who are neurotic and have mental problems and are fulfilling their social needs on forums like this because nobody can stand them IRL. You can save time dealing with these types by pointing out their obvious flaws and ignoring them rather than address their non-stop heavy mental gymnastics and endless rhetorical fallacies.
You forgat the folowers who are hiting the disagree button as soon as someone put any sort of critics on dow 3.
careful, we wouldn't want you perfect, logical opinions and pristine ego to be damaged in any way now would we? Best to just discount dissent as mindless plebes. I've been instantly disagreed with as well by the DoW3 hate club in the past (tripsin, nassir, you, etc.) 2 seconds after a 500 word post goes up. Get over yourself.
Honestly the way you talk to people here that happen to enjoy this game, you act like anyone with half a brain couldn't possibly disagree with you that DoW3 is just flawed top to bottom and DoW1 is the gold standard. /r/iamverysmart
And here we have the standard departure from reasonable debate in its natural progression. Watch as the forum goers turn on each other with no regard for the OP or any other healthy talking point in this thread.
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Comments
Gorb
Why does it matter? People have criticism of the game without even playing it, and we strive to defend their right to say it - even if we disagree with what they say.
Maybe leave the attempted personal slights out of a debate about balance?
Playing something can breed a familiarity, even an expertise, with the game. But you can also spend hours playing something and not become skilled at it. It's a false correlation. People are proven right by dint of their insight being accurate overall, their insight isn't automatically proven right because they had enough hours in PvP to satisfy your curiosity
Opinion post.
Stoner
@Gorb
"People have criticism of the game without even playing it, and we strive to defend their right to say it - even if we disagree with what they say."
Nice, that's why so many debates aren't going anywhere... And yes, Gorb, I didn't ask anything offensive, playtime has MUCH to say about judgement value of personal opinion. It's easier to check this than correct on each statement which will be futile in the end anyway. And as a friendly advice, you need to spend a LOT more time in this game as well, because it's so great, and design is so perfect, right?
CANNED_F3TUS
We all sound like a broken record
These changes were good for DoW 3. It would have been great if they could have kept sync kills but it was ++heresy redacted++ honestly and would have takin forever to program to be fluid or even remotely ok.
Armor and damage types never found balance and is probably the main reason why DoW 2s pvp was filled with fukkery shenanigens.
The game still got some ways to go sure but i wouldnt say DoW 3 isnt fun or not interesting.
No it is not the best solution. The people that love DoW 1 and 2 wont go back to DoW 3. (Maybe they will but not likely unless we get expan)
And that is fine with me. The only frickin thing that would happen is arch ++heresy redacted++ hammer make another gloating video and the comment section filled with more stupidity.
Relic shouldnt fold to these tards. Relic wanted something new and i respect that so now they gotta keep up the work and it will become a gem of its own. DoW 3 will get its own solid fanbase and DoW 3 will shape up to be a great game.
Gorb
Nobody "needs" to spend more time doing anything.
The attitude you're giving me kinda proves your aim with it; it wasn't exactly friendly, was it? There's only one reason people dredge up playtime for, and that's to discredit opinions based on it, instead of debating the actual opinion(s) posted. There's a fallacy by that name.
I do many things instead of playing video games. My "most played" game on Steam is only three hundred hours or so, over half a decade or more (Borderlands 2, whenever that was released). I don't have to justify myself, really; DoW III is a game I'm going to be playing for some time to come. But it's really telling, the agenda you have, with the the way your posts have been going of late. It's disappointing, and I won't waste either of our time with this further. You were much more constructive before you started relying on this personal route, and it's come out of frustration with the game, I think. Not the way to go about things.
CANNED_F3TUS
Not from what i been seeing. Most DoW 1 and 2 players wanted a reskin of their favorite game.
jonoliveira12
No matter what Relic did, a huge part of the community would be aggravated. So they just chose to seek a new fanbase, for a new game.
CANNED_F3TUS
Also warlock ork. Looking back to DoW 1 and you saying its a piece of art. It was a great game dont get me wrong but it also was the first game. People at that time didnt care about balance, pathing, laned maps, lore inaccuracies etc etc etc. It was like a fresh bag of chips. People are gonna tear that ++heresy redacted++ up because nobody had expectations. But looking back now i did wish they would have done a few things differently or better.
CANNED_F3TUS
Yeah you are right. Comes with splitting the community up like that. Cant please everybody right?
Stoner
You assume too much about my attitude. And yes, well designed and fun games in general people usually don't abandon in heaps, they want to play it rather than discuss it.
Katitof
I am going to throw this right back at you.
You are anachronistic "grandpa" who praises "good old days, when we had our horses and our wagons and it was great, not you younglings and your cars which do not even need a good old horse to move"
Contrary to you, I am able to back my points up.
You have effectively confirmed what I've said and have thrown the towel, especially in regards to the point about DoW1 fanboys being completely unable to say what DoW is for them (as you obviously dodged that as well, trying to be snippy).
Thank you sir, I think I'm done with you, its unlikely anything other then blind nostalgia will come out of you anytime soon.
jambai
Need to lose 200 more players and then we'll have the same player base as DoW 2 lol
And this game was released April, this year. April. It's not even half a year.
So are we going for a quick abandonment of the game or will soon release a statement about the future of the game (if there's any)?
Do tell us soon Relic. Frustration is indeed kicking in.
frumpylumps
Of course experience matters. If you have someone who spends 99% of the their free time telling other people how to play and 0.01% of the time actually playing the game, how are you not going to take that into consideration and use that as valid criticism of their potential lack in perspective in your arguments? In a complex value judgement, there is little else that can be relied upon.
It is not unreasonable to assume that the people who actually do this (and there is always one) could be representative of portion of the population who are neurotic and have mental problems and are fulfilling their social needs on forums like this because nobody can stand them IRL. You can save time dealing with these types by pointing out their obvious flaws and ignoring them rather than address their non-stop heavy mental gymnastics and endless rhetorical fallacies.
.
Gorb
Because, like I said, you can play a game for years and still not be "competent" at it.
This is without even going into the fact of high-level players disagreeing with each other, like we've seen in this thread. But you personally already weight the OP above someone like vindicarex, because you seem to have a personal problem with vindicarex. That's another factor. Someone could have a good and valid point, but word it terribly. Or worse, offensively. Or you could just plain not like them, nomatter the insight they bring tot he table.
There's a difference between "experience matters" and "post your playtime to prove a point". Experience is something that shows regardless of how much you talk about it.
Opinion post.
CANNED_F3TUS
You made your mind up about DoW 3 you hate it to its very fibre nothing anybody will say will change your mind. Still doesnt mean DoW 3 is a bad game overall.
As i mentioned DoW being the first game DoW 1 was so good nobody bothered with questioning its design. Some of it was good some of it was bad but it being the first DoW of its kind nobody asked these questions. The community wasnt split back then either and there was no black sheep to hate on.
S4ngetsu
Dow 3 has macro ? That's new ^^
Wikkyd
Orks and chaos had weapon upgrades as well, as did dark eldar in DoW1
How the hell do squad leaders fulfill the roles of an entirely different squad? What game does this?
>
Yeah 100 armour types is bad, however none of relic's games had over 100 armour types.
Weapon upgrades can add to complexity, they changed what the tactical squad did in DoW1 and 2.
Sync kills lasted much less than they did in dawn of war 1, and I doubt they had such an impact people seem to describe, I watch casts regularly of dow2 and I have not seen one person in the chat complain about them, they last literally less than 5 seconds.
Camera rotation... you must be joking.... Camera rotation helps how you play a game, maybe rarely but to say it doesn't it just rediculous.
DoW1 did have complexity in map design, it was all just one bloody lane or an open battlefield. This point is just inane.
salvasc
The word most played in dow 1 was "IMBA" ... There were always balance problems, especially as the expansions arrived.
DaDokisinX
careful, we wouldn't want you perfect, logical opinions and pristine ego to be damaged in any way now would we? Best to just discount dissent as mindless plebes. I've been instantly disagreed with as well by the DoW3 hate club in the past (tripsin, nassir, you, etc.) 2 seconds after a 500 word post goes up. Get over yourself.
Honestly the way you talk to people here that happen to enjoy this game, you act like anyone with half a brain couldn't possibly disagree with you that DoW3 is just flawed top to bottom and DoW1 is the gold standard. /r/iamverysmart
Spooky
And here we have the standard departure from reasonable debate in its natural progression. Watch as the forum goers turn on each other with no regard for the OP or any other healthy talking point in this thread.