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Is SM drop pod/banner ever going to be looked at
3 years ago
PaperBaG
So I do have an itch to play this game here and there but yea still don't understand why other 2 races core mechanics have been nerfed etc. but this one still stays, more small nerfs to orks/eldar I seen last patch notes I don't get it why SM doesn't get looked at....I can go into more detail but it just kills me that the gameplay is not bad etc. but the balance favors SM so badly it make this unplayble
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Spirit
I think the eldar and ork players are doing pretty good too. Look at all the recent eldar buffs to their gates. The cd of the gate abilitys has been halfed with a doctrin. Also avengers got their nades buffed. An ork player is top ranked in teamgames, and hes capabable of destroying anyone and anything no matter against which race or in what mode 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3.
Maybe pods annoy you, who knows maybe they are actually to strong, but talking about that the game is unplayable because of the sm banner and pods is silly.
I hate ranger and scout spam, its not very easy to deal with as sm if you dont just counterspam what i dont like. Do i moan about it because i dislike it saying it makes the game unplayable? nope.
Ololo111
Well, it's actually nefred with this update.
They receive the same 450 per drop and 500 out of the Standart while HP\Shields of every infs were rised as to be comparred with that.
Rejoice, they provide less out of base squad's health total right now early in the game.
TokyoDream
I always forget to drop that banner. I'm nerfing SM one game at a time.
Draconix
Me too doesn't use banner so much. Even if I play mostly vs AI.
jambai
The more you're talking sense to Relic, the harder they'll nerf eldar/orks.
charlando
"Find out how you can make your SM units more durable every 240 seconds using this one weird trick...(eldar/orc players hate it!)"
Spirit
I also hate the waaaghhh or that eldar units are super fast when in gate range. Sooooo?
SykA
Yeah but the Orks and Eldar have to pay for those. Spe ial snowflake Muhreens get pods and banner for free
S4ngetsu
Well, compared to SM, Eldar is very hard to play.
I also think that drop pot and banner needs to be nerfed tho. It's just way to easy to execute and rewarding.
I'd add a slightly extra cost for units that are built in the drop pots. That would be fair.
Because currently drop pots are for free and units built cost the same...
Spirit
Ork pays for it because they also tech up with their banners, and webgates have special abilitys with doctrins, its not that you only pay for fleet of foot and shield regeneration. I think some of you guys are only so annoyed because there are dozens of sm players and not as many ork or eldar players. If the majority would play eldar or ork, the thread topic would be named different.
GuruSkippy
Here are the nerf I would like :
Deadlywest
This is one reason why I stopped playing this game.
The balance was and still is terrible, so easy for a SM player to spam drop pods, and their higher tier units have wayy to much health.
That Dreadnought is bullsh!t, Gabriel won't die and is a bullet sponge. Their Snipers have crazy range. Orks have to rely on WAAAGH towers (which they upped the price on significantly) to get their higher tier units, while Space Marines don't rely on silly gimiks like that they can just upgrade from their base.
Gorb
Why? Eldar and Ork racial bonuses are available out of the gate. They're more structure-dependent but we've also seen in previous patches the relative safety of Waaagh towers in the early game, and Webways have been repeatedly tweaked (trending to buffs overall, I think).
I mean, SM are the race I'm most familiar with in this game (a first for me), and I don't understand why they need more and more restrictions on their T1 abilities. If they're too efficient, nerf their early-game squads. Or Power costs. Or both. Don't start adding in one minute cooldowns. Why one minute? Why not less? Why not more? What is it meant to delay? Against which MUs?
Opinion post.
Gorb
All that does is gate the ability for a similar amount of time + the resource costs involved. That's an even harsher nerf that GuruSkippy is proposing.
Katitof
'member when Eldar builder warp was faction fluff and got nerfed?
ohh i 'member
Very high mobility from get go apparently is op and there is no greater mobility then inserting your unit directly into the combat.
Banner pretty much guarantees SM winning first engagement and can be used defensively and offensively, especially combined with first drop pod.
I guess its too early to tell if SM mechanics need adjustments, but hp buff definitely plays to their advantage the most.
GuruSkippy
@Gorb
1 minute cooldown because 1st drop pod and banner are insanely good on the very first fight, when eldars and orks don't even have their waagh tower or webway gate ready.
Maybe 1 min is too high, 30sec may be enough.
Having access to a 2d squad, with a knockback and a 500HP shield, AND also, a banner, with an other knockback, speed, and AOE shield, it's huge in the very first fight.
1st waaagh tower has been delayed by 24 sec in previous patch, no one cared.
5 to 6sec to land. I know that we can have workers to detect them earlier, but let's be honest here : drop pods are really good at disrupting things. And they also deal damage to vehicules. And when you have 3 of them coming at the same time, it's near impossible to dodge. This change has been proposed by a lot of players, SM players included (vindicareX).
banner have to be recapped by SM if decapped.
Early game, I have sluggas only, one banner drops, if I decap it with 1 slugga, I must stay on the standard, losing a fighting melee unit. Yeah yeah, use a gretchin, blabla.
And the longer the game is, the harder it will be to decap the standard. If you manage to do it, the unit doing it will be focus fired and will die, if not an Elite. Then the standard will activate by itself again, giving buffs : nothing to do.
GuruSkippy
First drop pod is ready at 40sec minimum, and standard is ready at 0sec.
and no one complained about it, even eldar players)
First waaagh tower is buildable at 48sec and over at 1'18'' minimum. (previously, it was 24sec less, but was nerfed)
First webway gate is buildable from the start, but need 30sec to be built + travel time of the bonesinger to the build place = add nearly 30 sec (remember, bonesinger teleport has been put on cooldown
That's why I think we need to add a cooldown on 1st drop pod and standard.
Eldar and orks have seen their mechanic delayed by ~25/30 sec, but SM didn't.
30sec cooldown for a nerf seems ok, 1 minute is probably way too high.
Gorb
@Katitof
Bonesinger teleport is not an innate faction ability
I also argued against the lessening of faction bonuses for Eldar; I believed altering the recharge speed would be more interesting than simply nerfing Shield values. Relic opted for nerfing Shield values. Eh.
@GuruSkippy
Got a lot less of a problem on the Drop Pod timing (though six seconds is really quite a long time, even for the pace of DoW III infantry, especially considering both Eldar and Orks have ways to increase that. Would be most visible in SM mirrors). And the recapping of the banner . . . considering it's a timed ability, I feel that's quite a loss of ability. Would have to see how it plays out.
It's more the one minute (or time X) delay to SM being able to use anything that sets them apart as a faction. The strength of Waaagh and Eldar is balanced around them being tied to harassable structures (well, in theory. Bloomin' Orks). I feel introducing a delay until you can even use them is going to introduce a balance issue of "find the perfect number" between SM early game being woefully inadequate (considering these are pretty key components of it) and being strong. Which is why I'd rather target other areas, or incentivise ways of splitting an SM force (reducing the utility of the banner). Unsure how you'd go about the latter, though.
tritol
as a space marine I think it could use some changes ... I dont understand why SM have so many racial bonuses, yeah waagh buff is also op and eldar get lot of stuff with their "focus" but you have:
Banner
Banner should have been someones ability, maybe Gabens or librarians or chaplains that would make sense or change what it does, there is no reason for it to be dropped from orbit it could appear without knockback, there could be doctrines adding more effects to it. Maybe something like Elite specific bonus, shared cd and available for every elite but Gaben would drop it with CC, Dayomidis could provide healing etc etc ..
Drop pods
No reason to have shield on units that are deployed by pods, honestly no reason why it should deal damage knockback is ok, drop pods are free available whole game with no disadvantage for using them and well you are talking about 1v1 and everyone is playing "meta" but Gabens healing pods and Deathstorms with shields are really something (fun part you can recall deathwatch and then drop them and they will heal your units if Gaben is around).
And again little bonus, my favourite talk about escalation phases. Its interesting and cool mechanic but as it is now it works only as a more advanced and annoying upkeep there could be so much fun with it.
Make drop pods cost you resources and make the cost scale with escalation phases.
Give SM more than 3 drop pods make it 5 or 10 give them proper Steel Rehn but unlock them slowly with escalation phases.
Give drop pods limited charges and make those charges replenish with escalation phases.
Change CDs on both banner and drop pods to scale with escalation phases.
Change the bonuses both provide with escalation phases.
jambai
Just like orks you mean lol? They're forced into the same build order every single game thanks to the waagh tower nerf, deviate from that and you're just crippling yourself. No one is going to cry about SM actually having to think about build orders for once.
Stoner
As I said thousand times already and nobody can counter argument it:
Why we don't see huge spike in winrates if particularly SM or any other racial mechanic is OP right now? We had huge spike of winrates when Eldar mechanics were broken on release and Orks later. Now they balanced all 3, and prev. patch didn't indicate anything out of order. Current patch barely touched balance, it almost the same with just 30% hp slapped on ALL infantry of all races. Why concerns?
First of all, game has TON of issues in mom-balance related department, balance itself is actually fine, so I presume Relic should firt take a good look at gameplay mechanics. And I'm afraid that if any racial mechanics right now will see any considerable shifts, it will destroy balance again, which I wouldn't like to see.
Iatros
These are two core mechanics that help the SM at the beginning to overcome their core early weaknesses. Particularly their inability to cheaply deny an area forma moment, just to cap a point they got first, is ensured by the banner and it's nothing more, it can't really help them otherwise.
And due to the fact that they have the most expensive and slower early units, the drop pod gives them that.
What's frustrating is when such abilities are used in the late game, when the sms grow more competitive and further more use those abilities that were designed to help in the early game when they were weak.
That's what you must be referring to. When talking about adjustment, well isn't the incredibly long waiting times already ensure that? Aren't those skills a rarity on 1vs1?
But you are not talking about 1on1s aren't you? Well that's too bad as the balance teams only care about 1vs1...
Katitof
Because we just had a patch, metrics are too fresh and relic would rather die then share them?
Also remember release ranger meta?
They were hardcountered and shut down by most experienced players before the ranger "you're out of game now" nerf hit.
>
We don't know that, it was pretty good pre patch, but we don't know long term implications of 30% hp increase, what we do know however is that this change played right into the hands of SM while disadvantaging Eldar, shields take even longer to recover now that there is larger value out of base, while reinforce speed out of combat was unaffected, meaning SM and Ork players are battle ready much faster then Eldar, but at the req cost, which Eldar pays anyway in webway gates, which faction can't function without.
AlienHack
exactly. drop pod slots should be bought from a building. right now its a game changing ability that disrupts for free everything. can be used in the first encounter of the game to win it as it disrupts enemy infantry and ads shield to droped unit. and it can be used at late game droping 3 dreadnaughts in enemys core and winning the game . its too powerfull to be free
IntoTheRainbow
Where are you getting data for this claim? Surely 4 days of data is not enough in any case.
It seems to me SM have benefited disproportionately from the 30% health buff as the durability of TMs + reinforce speed is making them very hard to deal with early game, especially if you are Eldar. And that is after I thought SM were slightly too OP already.