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The maps are becoming too big / open
Darkstirling
I know there are certain players who prefer the more open maps, but I feel that too many of the new maps are too open, and I hope the trend doesn't continue. There is a reason that Argus Desert Gate was the most popular dow2 map by a factor of 1 billion, and it is because it was a large (but narrow, narrow is the key) map that concentrated the action into "lanes".
There are a few reasons I dislike the big open maps.
1. It encourages non-confrontational gameplay: I get that some people feel it offers more tactical flanking opportunities, but I disagree. Generally, I find it leads to what I call "ring-around-the-rosie" gameplay, in which people try to avoid / disengage from fights, and just backcap points where your enemy is not.
2. The distance between allies on the map becomes too great.: Just say two of our players are bot, and two of theirs are top, and our top flank is collapsing. Going to assist your ally is almost always the wrong move, because it can take almost a minute to get there, during which time, we lost a shield gen and a turret. Instead, it is better to simply push the side you're on, resulting in lame base races.
3. They STRONGLY encourage backdoors and cheesy gameplay.: Cheese strats on the smaller maps are certainly possible, but are harder to pull off. On the big maps, I am constantly seeing landspeeders sneaking into the base, SM backdoors, and Eldar webways in "dead spaces" on the map, where no one ever goes. I suppose these are legitimate strategies to some, but they are easy to pull off, hard to counter, and seem like a good way to get players to quit in frustration.
I am not saying that there shouldn't be any open maps, but currently, I would like to see a few more in the vein of tantalus station and solarion's gate
Also, why are there no small 2v2 maps? Every single 2v2 map is huge, whereas at least 3v3 gives some narrow options.
Comments
Jazz_Sandwich
There are so many complaints about map size at the moment. This is actually the very first time I've seen somebody posit that they're too large. I suppose more map variety is key and would suit everybody, which is why I think having community spotlight maps added to rotation would be good. Reduces workload and increases variety.
Wouldn't you consider Mork's mire 2v2 to be a small map? At least, I feel it's a map where the issues you've highlighted aren't as troublesome.
Darkstirling
It isn't that they're too "large" per se, but more that they are too wide, have too many points, and too many avenues of approach. I like the lanier maps that concentrate the action. That is why Tantalus station is my favourite, but it also provides some nice flanking opportunities and options to help your allies.
Mork's mire is probably the least bad 2v2 map, but that isn't saying much imo. It is the only map shared with the 1v1 pool so it is a little smaller. The other maps are all basically 3v3 maps, and the new serpent's chasm is HUGE.
Also, we need some urban / acheron / platform tileset 2v2 maps, the current ones are all "insert harsh terrain type" xD
vindicarex
1.) "Ring-around-the-rosie" gameplay is a normal and a very common tactic in just about every RTS game I've ever seen or played. However, in DoW3, this is far less true, with the game encouraging too much of the opposite: it encourages very aggressive and confrontational gameplay in excess. So 1.) is exactly why I'm pushing for bigger maps - because DoW3's current meta-game revolved around non-stop confrontation of big-pushes.
2.) Disagree here - often teamwork and going to help your ally is what sets apart competitive, arranged team with proper communication vs random teams. Yes, due to the constant-threat of a push (made easier by forward bases reinforcing armies everywhere on the map), it can be hard to leave objectives to quickly try and support your teammates. However, that isn't to say it CAN'T be done (as is suggested here) - I see 3v3 players do it all the time, including myself. If anything - big maps should make the effort/risk of leaving defense to go mobile the same as the effort/risk involved in moving across the map to attack.
Problem is, that effort/risk of moving across the map to attack is very small due to forward bases and smaller map sizes (forward bases make maps functionally smaller than they are).
3.) Cheese is cheese - gonna be present in any map size and in any game really. Almost by definition it's designed to crush low-skill players and requiring a relatively high amount of game-knowledge and skill to counter (as well as a bit of luck sometimes)
Backdoor is little different from cannon-rush or Rat-Nature's prophet (DoTA2).
The "counter" to backdoor to recon, scouting, and keeping a good-spread of your army to maintain map control (like in every RTS really...). Yes, the entire point of making maps bigger is to punish giant "blob your army here" army management. On quite a few maps in DoW3 (the smaller ones), this sort of management is way too effective (i.e. the player tries and thinks very little about map control and army positioning on Mork's Mire/Charon's Rest). Players should be rewarded for exploiting weak spots in the opponents attack.
This style of attack is exactly the design of Land Speeders btw, who excel at quickly attacking vulnerable targets.
Perhaps considerations can be made to solve some "back door" gameplay (like increasing drop pod time to drop, or removing benefits from objectives, or increasing power-core HP) - but a lot of it can be solved by simply examining your gameplay. I have countered many, many backdoors (in team games and 1v1s) successfully because I know what to look for (i.e. finding enemy workers in stealth).
vindicarex
Mork's mire says Hi.
Stoner
The only issue I have with particularly new 1v1 map is that it's too cramped with too many narrow passages. Overall size is great, I hope to see more big, open space maps in the future.
tritol
oh cmon guys
bonersingers are too op lets make their port start on cd .. hey why is there cd on warp
lets nerf snipers they are too op ... hey snipers are too weak they need buff
we dont like those boring dota style maps with lanes ... hey insert this post
TokyoDream
I really don't think it's helpful to compare DOW3 MP to DOW2 MP. DOW2 MP wasn't very good and DOW3 plays more like DOW1. I think there should be map variety for people who want smaller maps but DOW3 should lean into big armies and big battles. I would rather see bigger maps that support 8 players.
Ololo111
On 1:
Unlike CoHs\previous DoWs, you have to invest into generators, because points on their own don't provide resourses anymore. So, from my point of view, in this "ring-around-the-rosie" gameplay, you just need to find right time and invest into defences (yes, you would immediatelly lose in movable DPS and may lose more points, so you have to plan ahead to capitalize on it)
On 2:
As applied to 3v3, you're right.
On 3:
It's more about map control. The bigger the map is, the more it favours to the factions with advanced mobility options, namely eldars and SM (just imagine how far from an actual Machine Cult you could drop thosde Dreds...), as well as players with higher execution threshold (well, someone can put a BS\Webway in just every patch of Stealth Cover, someone can not; maps like Mork's Mire and Port Saundres are the best examples - a smaller size won't save you from this).
Indeed, there should be a limit on how big maps could be. Every CoH or DoW2 got this size fixed just because some of the factions had to retreat to HQ's and no ohter options available. In DoW1 there is Necrons, who had their production speed (to some units) tied to the number of SP, so it's only natural that competitve 1v1 map shouldn't have more than 4 of them per player (though most of the maps had 3 and some vanilla maps, like Railroad war and 1 more had only 2; Railroad was quite popular with casual players, by the way - pretty much your Infinity Isle of Ra3 or Market Town of Generals).
And there are different mobility options in DoW3: SM's got droppods, Eldars have relocatting building, teleporting BS'es and webway links, as well as 3 Skimmer units more than other factions, while Orks.. well, they are Orks, after all. So, it would be great from my point of view, if there won't be any 1v1 maps bigger than Shrine of Asuryan on 12,5% maximum.
You've comparred SC with DoTA just now?
CANNED_F3TUS
Yeah guess its preferential stuff. But i do like a medium to big map for 2 v 2s.
Alot more room,for strategt with big maps if you see an enemy that is camping out somewhere and massing up i can go and target another part of the map to pressure enemy player or see what they gonna do about it. Etc etc.