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How to play Orks?
2 years ago
Gorgor
I mean, they are a super weird army in 3. Not to mention that I don't think they're that effective.
-> Super costly and counterable Towers
-> Weird and frankly weak Elites(wtf is that Lifta thing? It needs at least 1 more ability or faster fire rate)
-> Scrap nonsense
-> Waaaagh nonsense
I mean they are a nice idea, I'll give them that. Just not properly realized imo.
So, how to play them? I can't bunker(get out teched due to Towers costing 85 Power!), I can't really attack and trade properly...wtf is this!
How can Orks be boring? GG Relic! You made Orks convoluted + boring(a complete 180 from what they are supposed to be)!
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Comments
Fww
Dunno orks are the most fun faction.
TuskaDemonKilla
Im still learning them (just like im still learning the game).
But i like the early game.
Boyz spam into trukk and nobz.
Im just not sure what the best nuke is to go with the taunt.
Tried tankbustas with doctrine, but results were meh.
Simply take a kamikaze stormboy? Or maybe Zapnoggin?
Not sure about lategame either.
Killakans? Dreads? Heavy Arty?
Depends ofc, but im not quite sure when to get Dreads ( i mean, i alrdy have so much melee) and dont know if Arty is any good.
Maybe gwt that Mad Dread as lategame elite?
Spirit
Beauty seems to be always the best choice for a late game elite for orks as beauty is pretty much the strongest titan out there. Shes 9 points tho. Im not sure if you even need a late game elite. Gorgutz allows you some free reinforcement, wazz makka can help to take down any elite or titan and stormboys are like the best 2 pointer out there nt to forget the weirdboy or commando which are both great too.
Mad dread is pretty good too yes. Well its hard to chose a ork elite as they are all very very good, but beauty is like the tip of the iceberg.
Gorgor
Yeah, my issues stem from few issues:
Ok, let's analyze units now:
Slugga Boyz: Ah an actually very nice cannon fodder unit. Don't know whether to waste scrap on them tbh.
Shoota Boyz: I mean, even Avengers with those obnoxious cooling mechanics are better than them currently. The worst basic Ranged Infantry, for sure.
Trukk: Ok, I get what you are supposed to do, but this is stupid as all ++heresy redacted++. Not only that, but them reinforcing units makes all sorts of Elites obsolete(most notably: Lifta). Nice unit.
Loota Boyz: I like them very much yes. Ultimate Setup unit(maybe outclassed by Dark Reapers? idk).
Tankbustaz: Too nerfed imo. They seem not at all effective right now. And they were nerfed hard in the last update. I get why(they delete Skimmers), but...I think it's time to introduce more versions of armor and rules concerning them. This does not work.
Deffkopta: Buffed constantly, still the worst Skimmer. I know what it should do, but that kind of utility is viable on in ultra high matches. Kinda like milling in cards. Otherwise...idk, use Trakta Beam?
Killa Kan: Sure, a nice burst from 2-3 KKs is actually very dangerous to all manner of vehicles, but this unit's exactly what I'm talking about why Orks are obnoxious to play as. No spray and pray(Ork way), but rather some awkward sniping mechanic? Completely misdesigned.
Deff Dread: A pointless Walker imo. Dread seems better. I guess its death explosion can be useful? /shrug
Artillery Gun: Why does it even have a mobile mode? It's pointless. It's basically a super expensive Siege Tank as is. Good in Siege Mode, shockingly bad otherwise. That's ok for actual Siege Tanks(quite affordable in SC), but these...? lol no
Nobz: A very, very nice, almost immortal unit, but...Wraithblades are much more useful and overall better imo. Nevermind, this unit is awesome.
Listening Post: No Improved Listening Post Doctrine? wtf
Tower: Overpriced. It should use some kind of dynamic pricing(price adjusts itself according to the number of Towers built successfully{aka waaagh counter} in the past).
So, the good units are what?
-> Nobz
-> Sluggaz
-> Trukkz
-> Lootaz
... ... ... that's not good.
TuskaDemonKilla
Nobz rule. And i like the trukk catapult^^
But yeah, the lategame feels weird.
Wargrim
IMHO the main problem Orks have is the same problem Eldar have: SM are designed to have the flexibility to hard counter both AND reach a criticall mass of whatever they want to use pretty fast. Couple that with SM early game elite dominance and the factions that need a bit more time to build up momentum and tech ( especially now after Waaagh banner price increase ) need to first survive the very first minutes and then harrass SM economy like crazy to be able to outscale SM deathblobs building up. SM are the only faction that can afford to sit on a few high value nodes and just fortify them with improved post and then drop in stuff if the nodes are threatened while taking their main army around the map in the meantime. Eldar only have local high mobility around FoF and Orks can Waaagh for short raids and then fall back - and unlike SM can not react on things happening where their army is not. Both Orks and Eldar can not uphold a war of attrition against SM. Both need to out-harrass their economy while being super carefull to not lose their army in the process. Both Orks and Eldar are power limited, while SM can do most of their early/mid game strategies with req req req and only some power.
So to beat SM, you gotta conserve your forces, get power, tech to good stuff like Trukk launched Nobs, harrass economy like crazy and somehow kill Killteam Diomedes. I cant pull that off against a good SM player i must say. But mediocre ones often get confused or tunnel vision if you manage to attack them in multiple places, which quick waaghed strikes allow you to do. You gotta play more like Eldar than true Orks, hit and run, and run earlier than you think you should, cause of all the ++heresy redacted++ SM can drop on you from nowhere.
Spirit
Sm gets deleted drop pods or not, has been seen in the purge tournament as well. So all the talking is nonsense if you are annoyed by the pods then its your feelings about the race. I play now mainly eldar i gotta say its way more enjoyable, no more slow moving sm army. Can just run across the map with fof or use teleportation in t2/t3.
Slugga boys and shootas are very good i would advice you to watch some high level play. Look what those guys do with ork t1 and later on with ork late game they destroy sms.
I play alot with tpokotanaka hes pretty much the best ork player in teamgames, i see what hes capabable to do with orks.
Gorgor
Don't judge based on tournaments and high level players. Judge by mid level performance. Otherwise:
Is milling overpowered in Card Games? Perhaps even wildly at pro level. Meanwhile a casual Friday Night Magic...mill loses like 8 / 10. WTF?
Also, Tower cost is ++heresy redacted++. Other races need 200 / 200 resources to tech up. Orks need like 500 / 250. Also, you can't stop other races from teching up(short of flatout destroying main building which is kinda drastic). You can and you will stop Orks from teching up. Perhaps even waste their efforts at a tech. >.>
That's too much. Orks are only good at like Esc 1 and up to mid game.
Spirit
Judge by mid level performance? Sorry that makes no sense, you can only judge by people that actually perfectionated the races. Surely collective data is also interesting like how the wins and losses for factions are split up in 1v1s.
steinernein
Which decks are mill again?
legacy meta, modern meta ,
standard meta
I don't think mill has been a thing excluding Ulamog in competitive MTG for awhile.
Also, you should judge a game by top end balance, but make as many adjustments as necessary to mid so long as it doesn't impede the top.
Gorgor
Twas just an example of an advanced mechanic.
Actually I agree with you.
Shuttdown
I agree with Spirit. Look at some high-level replays and tournament play. If for nothing more but to see how those players play the faction, and hopefully inspire you to try some things with your play that will make you more comfortable with your own play-style. I think that is the point, not to emulate, but to get some idea and fit that to your own play. I just don't think mid-range replays will give you that eureka moment.
Unfortunately, I think Orks are pretty one-dimensional now due to the waaagh tower changes and the unit health buffs. The percentage health increase of line units affected the Orks the least since they generally have the lowest health values with more models, so less health per model gained from this buff. This means your group of boys will still just melt against any elite nuke or infantry blob. Shootas -> (trukks/Nobz or Lootas) -> Tankbustas seems the norm. At a certain point though, you want to end the game before it extends too far into late-game, the other races will just snowball over you unless you are making perfect use of scrap to build vehicles, but this can be difficult to manage with little practice (and worst of all that ability is dictated by the dumb phase mechanic). So basically even if you do tech up fast the game holds your full Orky potential back until the other races have a chance to catch up. Orks are the only faction that suffer from this silly phase mechanic impacting their abilities so directly.
Orks are hard to play, but the most fun. Every now and then I play Eldar and it is like a weight off my shoulders just having to worry about a warrior portal and a cheap webway gate or two instead of towers and scrapping up units in early-mid game. Eldar can get their tier 1 unit choices up and out as soon as 2:30min. Orks just cannot out-tech Eldar or SM. It really requires your opponent to go AFK for a couple minutes to be able to out-tech as Orks. Anyone remember when you could tech to Nobz in 6-7min? But, the meta couldn't handle that... Since you can't out-tech, just try to out-melt their army using taunts to either distract or blob their units for one huge hit. Orks have some of the best elites, so get good use of them!
EDIT: tldr (sorry): Orks can be difficult, watch other skilled players and get ideas to fit your play. Unfortunately current meta and balance is limiting Orks slightly, but the Elites are great.
Gorgor
Ok, time for Elite review then:
Storms: Yeah, a very nice and effective unit. Practically a core pick.
Kommando: I think he was nerfed? Anyhow, he should still be nice for behind the line ops.
Zzapnoggin: He's still useful, but kinda meh now. More on that later.
Wazzmakka: I just don't understand why you would ever pick him. Maybe if Turtle styles got a leg up?
Gorgutz: A good ole faithful. Very effective at linebreaking, tanking even supporting his mob. A core pick.
Lifta Droppa: A nice idea, but why? I know that this thing can even disable Titans(!), but...it fires TOO SLOW! Hence it needs either an extra ability, faster attacks or to be able to target enemies with that Q of his. What's the point of W btw?
MANz: These have a rather nasty combo with Trukkz(if they can use them) or otherwise Zzap or Lifta. Outside of that, they're very underwhelming and overpriced imo.
Mad Dread: It's ok. But it's very difficult to justify taking him.
Gorkanaut: Bad. I think it's just underwhelming and bad. Ok, maybe I'm being too harsh, but the following ruins him completely:
Morkanaut: Beautiful. Just beautiful. A walking fortress that impacts the battlefield so hard...Core pick definitely.
So, these are Elite choices:
And I agree about teching. It's just ++heresy redacted++ now. Towers definitely need Dynamic Pricing. No ifs ands ors buts about it. Just do it!
tldr: Buff Ork Elite choices! Especially Lifta!
vindicarex
If anything Orkz have some of the strongest late game (with all their half-priced vehicles coming out... 150 power big trakk is a huge deal).
Shuttdown
I think there are some details you aren't considering when evaluating a couple of these elites. Of course, your opinion and/or play-style will shape you're outlook. But if I may convince you:
Wazzmakka is one of my favorite Elites. The deal with him is that it is all about the traktor beam. He drains opposing elite's health using the traktor beam ability. It slows, does a damage based on health percentage. Meaning the more health a target has, the more value you get for getting the beam on them. It also reels in units caught by it trying to escape and if placed on friendly units gives them a shield. Helpful for breaking a turret. With support, he is an elite killer. The scrap drop and scrap turret are just bonuses to me. Doctrines kinda suck though.
Madd Dread has the charge ability, tunneling, and passive scrap loot that lets him heal by simply walking over scrap. He also has a frenzy. If the charge hits a vehicle it stuns them in place for a long time, 10 seconds iirc. This is useful for the big titans or other 7pt elites like Venerable dread or ironclad and other line-unit vehicles. Tunnel is also great for deploying rok bombardment on-top of enemy forces.
Wazzmakka also got a buff with the last patch. I once had solaria get called down infront of my assault while I had madd dread and wazzmakka out. Dread charged solaria immediately and I placed the traktor beam on her from waz with minimal support as my army was far behind. Solaria was gone before being able to cause any real damage.
Kommando and Zap got nerfed, but are still useful (Kommando got the hardest nerf of all changes so far with the damage allocation change, but something was needed to change his army wiping bombs). Zap needs skrap to fuel his shield and Kommando is great for node harrassment unless LPs get built everywhere. Both nuke abilities from them are good, but need support, especially Kommando's bomb as the change made his aoe more effective against single-entity heavy-armor targets which is kinda odd.
Gorgor
What do you think of Lifta Droppa? It's a complete waste of space currently(imo). A trukk outdoes him! A TRUKK!
Katitof
Does a trukk stunlock elites, making them free kills?
Gorgor
As I said, too slow of a firing rate.
Would you rather take Lifta or Gorgutz? In like 90% cases.
Katitof
In like 90% of cases, I don't see what would stop me from getting both.
Support elites aren't exactly meant to murder stuff, but I'm quite sure I'd find a use to throw my tankbustas on the other side of the map, right on top of these whirlwinds.
Shuttdown
Pretty hard to make a case for the lifta droppa. There is some redundancy when compared to trukks. It is also very slow and its scrapped mode is currently bugged and doesn't even throw a unit correctly... Moving during it's long auto attack will cancel it no matter how long into the attack you are. It literally your wastes time if you do this. Its rate of fire can be outrun. On top of all this the doctrines are abilities for a pretty useless unit, relatively.
Some will say the lifta droppa can stun-lock, it can reinforce, launch any unit (into either certain death by itself, or harass) blah blah. It has its uses but...as a 5 pt Elite just why?...why would you take it? Gorgutz or wazzmakka all the way. Gorgutz for support or wazzmakka for Elite killing.
Gorgor
Just what I was saying. Lifta needs a buff. I've been trying it but even vs AI it's really terrible and gimmicky. Sure, you can destroy Whirlwinds that way, but you can also use Koptas. Trukk Nob combo etc for it. It really needs something.
Otherwise, Orks can be helluva fun! It's just...Towers promote Hit n Run(wtf) and Orks are no Eldar lol. Towers are also terribly overpriced, but apart from that, it can be fun to simply A-move you Green Tide.
Now, fix my sparkly Droppa Wagon!
Deadlywest
Let me weight in since I play Orks.
I do think they are the worst team in the game, and you did a pretty good job of stating how.
Now you can say "Orks aren't the worst team, i see so and so do well with them". Well listen, let me tell you something, I should be able to pick up a team in any game without having to copy some top tier player who has probably spent hours finding 1 small broken thing, or has sat on his a$$ and studied the game for hours about the group/character and play them that way to get a win. Why do I have to copy 1 guys play style to win, while SM players can play any style and dominate, what kind of balance is that? Horrible balance, unfun and bad gameplay.
When you have to play a character or team some super specific way that you saw some kid who probably spent hours learning to get a win with a team that usually mean the team sucks.
Orks are garbage. Unless you play them some super specific way and basically copy some guy who knows a top tier strategy they're terrible.
esleg
Ya not sure what to say. I played them a few times, never really liked them.. I think it says a lot that people who play vs CPU players choose to play vs Orks to get an easier time.