@reach said: @Bezagron
Cute ideas but any duration of sync kills will delay responsiveness.
Those 3\4 seconds of delay will not matter man.... If they do it right executions or finishers can be a thing. I agree that dow 1 and 2 where pretty stupid with the sync kills but if they do it like bezagron suggestes it would be very good.
Any duration of sync kill animation will delay responsiveness.
@reach said: @Bezagron
Cute ideas but any duration of sync kills will delay responsiveness.
Those 3\4 seconds of delay will not matter man.... If they do it right executions or finishers can be a thing. I agree that dow 1 and 2 where pretty stupid with the sync kills but if they do it like bezagron suggestes it would be very good.
Any duration of sync kill animation will delay responsiveness.
How is that any different to attack animation delay? If the sync kill takes the same time as an attack animation how does that delay responsiveness any longer then having to order a unit before any kill?
@reach said: @Bezagron
Cute ideas but any duration of sync kills will delay responsiveness.
Those 3\4 seconds of delay will not matter man.... If they do it right executions or finishers can be a thing. I agree that dow 1 and 2 where pretty stupid with the sync kills but if they do it like bezagron suggestes it would be very good.
Any duration of sync kill animation will delay responsiveness.
How is that any different to attack animation delay? If the sync kill takes the same time as an attack animation how does that delay responsiveness any longer then having to order a unit before any kill?
Yeah, imo, as long as the sync kill is only one attack animation in length, like a simple swipe in half with a chainsword, I don't see the problem. If the unit decides to cut the other guy into pieces, that might look grim dark and all, but it significantly delays responsiveness.
Well I think we also need to take into consideration the zoom level of our view. The further out we go the less finer detail will be noticed. So a simple cut in half would work better.
I think the trick is having 1 or 2 unique kill animations that play occasionally for different attack types & weapons. Like flamer standard infantry death is model falls over & has a burning effect that fades to a burnt effect. Then a unique kill for the flamer infantry death is the model running around like a living torch on fire before falling over to die. This special kill wouldn't play on every model death or could not even play on wiping out a whole squad.
It's about making special death/kill animations that have a chance/condition to play on top of the base death animation.
If at worst death animations tied to weapons used for the kill. So Assault Marines are going to leave the bodies of they foes in pieces as they've been cut apart by chainswords. Dreadnought smash will leave less body part but one massive blood strain as foes have been turned to pulp.
@RaspberryTurtle said:
At the very least I expect synch Kills between Hero/Walker units...
Like hero vs hero or walker vs walker? I would not like sync kills for hero or walker vs simple line units because of the reduced responsiveness. But a hero killing another hero, and especially a super unit killing another super unit, I would be willing to sacrifice some responsiveness to see those done with some gusto.
having a wraithknight kill the knight like the trailer would be sick. same with the other way round. if they can make less, but cooler sync kills, I'd be fine with that. my biggest problem was that in dow 1/2 like 90% of them are boring as hell, sergeant using bolt pistol on a dude and slashing him a few times, etc. but if they make them happen less, but they always look really nice (like the deff dread killing the marine in the trailer. or the dread killing the banshees in the dow 2 trailer.) than I think it would be worth it if only because you wouldnt get tired of them nearly as quickly.
@Creature said:
Like hero vs hero or walker vs walker? I would not like sync kills for hero or walker vs simple line units...
Yes, basically any 1v1 situation where "responsiveness" would be a non-issue.
I can agree to that. I would say responsiveness will still be a slight issue because the enemy can still move units away from your hero during the sync kill animation, but 1v1 scenarios would not happen so very often to make it a big issue. It would also make sync kills more special and noticeable, imo.
@Bezagron said:
How is that any different to attack animation delay? If the sync kill takes the same time as an attack animation how does that delay responsiveness any longer then having to order a unit before any kill?
If kill syncs weren't random and they added a ton with the same time frame, the controll issue would go out the window as it would be certain and expected (and stratagized over)
Not really if both have the same animation duration. It's just changing the visual for example of a chainsword swing. Both are a consistent animation duration, both lock you out of control as such for that animation. The randomness comes only from not always seeing the foe cut in half all the time on their death.
Not really if both have the same animation duration. It's just changing the visual for example of a chainsword swing. Both are a consistent animation duration, both lock you out of control as such for that animation. The randomness comes only from not always seeing the foe cut in half all the time on their death.
Is it even worth putting in the game?
Why not just have the death animation be the thing that reacts to the different attack animations. Then you have as much time as you want.
Not really if both have the same animation duration. It's just changing the visual for example of a chainsword swing. Both are a consistent animation duration, both lock you out of control as such for that animation. The randomness comes only from not always seeing the foe cut in half all the time on their death.
Is it even worth putting in the game?
Why not just have the death animation be the thing that reacts to the different attack animations. Then you have as much time as you want.
Favour, a unique aspect that highlights & enhances the games atmosphere that futher ties it into the "Grimdark" of the 40k universe.
Also to give it this visual spectator reward that actually makes combat an enjoyment to watch time & again.
Like without it how often would you just watch the animated combat for the combat it is. And think that was a cool moment before refocusing on the players interactions.
Not really if both have the same animation duration. It's just changing the visual for example of a chainsword swing. Both are a consistent animation duration, both lock you out of control as such for that animation. The randomness comes only from not always seeing the foe cut in half all the time on their death.
Is it even worth putting in the game?
Why not just have the death animation be the thing that reacts to the different attack animations. Then you have as much time as you want.
Favour, a unique aspect that highlights & enhances the games atmosphere that futher ties it into the "Grimdark" of the 40k universe.
Also to give it this visual spectator reward that actually makes combat an enjoyment to watch time & again.
Like without it how often would you just watch the animated combat for the combat it is. And think that was a cool moment before refocusing on the players interactions.
Sync kills are part of the reason DoW never really became boring. The battles are always fun to watch. I still occasionally blast up Dark Crusade to watch the Bloodthirster running around batting units with his axe and squeeze blood out of them.
Total War Warhammer has some sync-kills that work flawlessly too, and the battles in that game are never a bore. Giants picking up a soldier and slamming it into the rest of the group is just great. The Chaos Dragon does the same thing, swinging a guy around in its mouth and slamming it into his own regiment. Good stuff, fits Warhammer, looks good, feels good, doesn't obstruct my gameplay personally. TWW is much slower paced, yes, but unit control is still important and never feels hampered - although the game does punish retreats with surrounds quite readily.
Sync kills could easily be worked around in a way that keeps control. Allowing the unit to move and the sync-killing character to catch up is a simple fix. But honestly, I don't recall ever having a problem with a unit getting stuck during a sync-kill, it's just people prioritising the highest skilled gamers while ignoring the majority of the playerbase. SC2 combat isn't fun to watch, cool death animations or not, they get old very quickly, as well as units only having a single attack animation.
And I think that an important aspect. Having visual exciting to watch. This would also play into esports as if it's exciting to watch even people that don't fully understand can get enjoyment out of it. If they enjoy it enough they might even pick it up.
@g0ll0 said:
I don't care about sync kills... what I cares is about a squad not firing while moving.. that worries me, a feature than only dow and dow2 have, units look dumb if not firing while move, Relic is removing features than made dow unique rts and making a command and conquer game... If they remove core mechanics about the game reviews and old dow1 community will bash them hard
Didn't even notice that. I'm sure that can't be right though as SM not firing on the move would be pretty stupid. Particularly close combat varients such as bolt pistols. I hope this isn't going to be another "we dropped this in the name of improving clarity"
The serie of DoW changes at every episode, we can't really expect to find the same elements from the previous games into the next one.
Relic stated (a lot of times) that their focus for this one is on responsiveness and clarity. You can forget about sync kills as we knew them in Dow1 and especially Dow2.
Maybe they'll implement some cool visuals and various animations but there won't be any loss of dps, invulnerability or units stuck even for 1 second.
They already gave up on the grimdark atmosphere with the cartoon artstyle. Cartoon sync kills have no place in that game.
@shmoulki said:
The serie of DoW changes at every episode, we can't really expect to find the same elements from the previous games into the next one.
Relic stated (a lot of times) that their focus for this one is on responsiveness and clarity. You can forget about sync kills as we knew them in Dow1 and especially Dow2.
Maybe they'll implement some cool visuals and various animations but there won't be any loss of dps, invulnerability or units stuck even for 1 second.
They already gave up on the grimdark atmosphere with the cartoon artstyle. Cartoon sync kills have no place in that game.
Then why even bother buying the game? The majority of DoW players are 40k fans.
No grimdark, check.
Lore breaking, check.
Combat no longer enjoyable to watch, check.
Take the DoW out of DoW, check.
Looking like a bad checklist to me. Relic would gut themselves by changing it this heavily.
@shmoulki said:
The serie of DoW changes at every episode, we can't really expect to find the same elements from the previous games into the next one.
Relic stated (a lot of times) that their focus for this one is on responsiveness and clarity. You can forget about sync kills as we knew them in Dow1 and especially Dow2.
Maybe they'll implement some cool visuals and various animations but there won't be any loss of dps, invulnerability or units stuck even for 1 second.
They already gave up on the grimdark atmosphere with the cartoon artstyle. Cartoon sync kills have no place in that game.
Then why even bother buying the game? The majority of DoW players are 40k fans.
No grimdark, check.
Lore breaking, check.
Combat no longer enjoyable to watch, check.
Take the DoW out of DoW, check.
Looking like a bad checklist to me. Relic would gut themselves by changing it this heavily.
the combat in dow 3 already looks more enjoyable to watch compared to dow 2 simply because it isnt a bunch of people taking potshots at eachother from behind rocks. grimdark is something that can be achieved by the setting as well as the colors. previous dawn of wars are as well very much lore breaking. gameplay trumps lore for the most part, and dow 3 isnt that lore breaking anyways outside of a few little annoyances. I dont understand how sync kills are supposed to be included in the game, and if its not, people wont buy it? that sounds extremely shallow. and also something that wont happen. people will buy it because its a good game, not because its grimdark, or 40k. theres plenty of grimdark 40k games that suck, and it shows, and guess what, no one's bought them, because the gameplay sucked.
@shmoulki said:
The serie of DoW changes at every episode, we can't really expect to find the same elements from the previous games into the next one.
Relic stated (a lot of times) that their focus for this one is on responsiveness and clarity. You can forget about sync kills as we knew them in Dow1 and especially Dow2.
Maybe they'll implement some cool visuals and various animations but there won't be any loss of dps, invulnerability or units stuck even for 1 second.
They already gave up on the grimdark atmosphere with the cartoon artstyle. Cartoon sync kills have no place in that game.
Then why even bother buying the game? The majority of DoW players are 40k fans.
No grimdark, check.
Lore breaking, check.
Combat no longer enjoyable to watch, check.
Take the DoW out of DoW, check.
Looking like a bad checklist to me. Relic would gut themselves by changing it this heavily.
the combat in dow 3 already looks more enjoyable to watch compared to dow 2 simply because it isnt a bunch of people taking potshots at eachother from behind rocks. grimdark is something that can be achieved by the setting as well as the colors. previous dawn of wars are as well very much lore breaking. gameplay trumps lore for the most part, and dow 3 isnt that lore breaking anyways outside of a few little annoyances. I dont understand how sync kills are supposed to be included in the game, and if its not, people wont buy it? that sounds extremely shallow. and also something that wont happen. people will buy it because its a good game, not because its grimdark, or 40k. theres plenty of grimdark 40k games that suck, and it shows, and guess what, no one's bought them, because the gameplay sucked.
By your logic, DoW1 and DoW2 were bad games. They had plenty of adherence to lore and actual fun features that could cause gameplay issues, but people didn't care outside of the tiny proportion of top players. Both games are still being played which proves their overall success.
Yes, some people won't buy a Dawn of War game if it doesn't feel like Dawn of War. that's how series work. If the game ends up feeling nothing like a DoW game, it might as well have been renamed. This comes down to both gameplay and visual style. Nobody would have a problem if the game was under a different name instead of using the DoW name to keep the old fanbase around.
Ever notice how the Halo series dropped off after Bungie stopped developing it? That's because of significant changes to gameplay and visuals. Ever wonder why Call of Duty does so well? Because it adheres to its own conventions in each game without treading too far out to alienate the fanbase.
Also I put bad sales of 40k games down to poor advertising. 40k is niche, and 40k players enjoy quality. Dawn of War is probably the highest quality 40k series, and so it has kind of stuck with players.
Dow2 had almost nothing to do with Dow1, and still it's the same serie of game. Dow 3 is clearly not the game i wished with the atmosphere i expected but the game will be good, it will surprises me like Dow2 surprised me. It's a new game and at least we cannot blame Relic to avoid risks and not to innovate. Sometimes it works (Dow2) sometimes it's a disappointment (Diablo 3)
I hate SC2, it feels like an old game stuck in the 90's with the exact same boring game mechanisms of SC1.
Dow2 innovated and it was great. Dow3 is innovating and it will be great too.
@shmoulki said:
Dow2 had almost nothing to do with Dow1, and still it's the same serie of game. Dow 3 is clearly not the game i wished with the atmosphere i expected but the game will be good, it will surprises me like Dow2 surprised me. It's a new game and at least we cannot blame Relic to avoid risks and not to innovate. Sometimes it works (Dow2) sometimes it's a disappointment (Diablo 3)
I hate SC2, it feels like an old game stuck in the 90's with the exact same boring game mechanisms of SC1.
Dow2 innovated and it was great. Dow3 is innovating and it will be great too.
I think this is a great perspective. We say we want the same as before, "The Rose Tinted Glasses" but then also complain when it's the same & nothing new has be added. Like how many people would just buy a reskin of graphics, maybe the 1st time but what about the 2nd, the 3th, the 4th what then. We can already get the full experience from the first game let alone the 2nd, 3th & 4th.. We grave new experiences & get bored with if everything just stays the same.
Finishers could be fast (Chainsword cutting in half, Thunderhammer throwing a unit several metres, plasma guns making large holes, bolters exploding heads) so there goes main reason behind not including them - clarity and responsiveness. Not including them is a clear departure from what made Dawn of War iconic.
If they make a copy of Starcraft mechanics (Void ray lascannons, heroes being bigger than rest of units) with some additions like squads instead of individuals it will just be another game destined to die soon cause you cannot defeat ammount of polish Blizzard is famed for.
Sync kills is a must have of the dow franchise (as much as the cover system, but that's another story)
there is also an easy way to allow sync kills without having alot of problems with it :
first, make the sync kills faster, like 2 seconds max. For example, a tactical marine executing a unit in short range (bolter firing during 1-2seconds -> done), a wraithknight that kills a imperial knight in melee (cut it in half in 1 second -> done), a assault marine killing a unit in melee (chainsword through it and lift it in 2 seconds -> done)
second, make it so the sync kill start sooner, to end it faster as well (for example, if an assault marine needs 2 hit to kill a unit, after the first melee strike hit, immediatly start the sync kill)
third, make it so a movement or retreat order or unit kill cancels the sync kills (unit kill can either be the enemy unit killed by an explosion / range shot / other melee unit, or that the ally unit died somehow and let the ennemy unit live)
that would allow the sync kills to be part of the game, to not be an animation lock problem, and not taking too long for it to be a problem in certain situations.
@MiniCloud said:
Sync kills is a must have of the dow franchise (as much as the cover system, but that's another story)
there is also an easy way to allow sync kills without having alot of problems with it :
first, make the sync kills faster, like 2 seconds max. For example, a tactical marine executing a unit in short range (bolter firing during 1-2seconds -> done), a wraithknight that kills a imperial knight in melee (cut it in half in 1 second -> done), a assault marine killing a unit in melee (chainsword through it and lift it in 2 seconds -> done)
second, make it so the sync kill start sooner, to end it faster as well (for example, if an assault marine needs 2 hit to kill a unit, after the first melee strike hit, immediatly start the sync kill)
third, make it so a movement or retreat order or unit kill cancels the sync kills (unit kill can either be the enemy unit killed by an explosion / range shot / other melee unit, or that the ally unit died somehow and let the ennemy unit live)
that would allow the sync kills to be part of the game, to not be an animation lock problem, and not taking too long for it to be a problem in certain situations.
none of this can work
2 seconds or even 1 seconds is too much time wasted in a MOBA, and this is the new direction for DOW3. Plus it still makes probleme about movement, responsiveness, dps, retreat....
you can't start killing a unit before it really supposed to die, it still can be healed, shielded (for example Angelos shield), retreated....the attacker can be killed before it will hit again or pushed back....
-it will make weird animations and that means you should micro every unit making a sync kill so it would attack instead of being useles:smile
sync kills must be full part of the gameplay or they shouldn't be there.
one option should be that after a sync kill the unit will have an attack and movement buff to compensate, it should be a % reward, a little bit like special attacks but involving the unit getting a kill.
@MiniCloud said:
make it so a movement or retreat order or unit kill cancels the sync kills (unit kill can either be the enemy unit killed by an explosion / range shot / other melee unit, or that the ally unit died somehow and let the ennemy unit live)
that would allow the sync kills to be part of the game, to not be an animation lock problem, and not taking too long for it to be a problem in certain situations.
Agreed, there are still many ways to leave in sync kills without serious hampering the few members of the whole competitive e-sports crowd who do not care much about aesthetics. I hope there is not a big budget issue liked there seemed to be in DOW2.
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Comments
reach
Any duration of sync kill animation will delay responsiveness.
Bezagron
How is that any different to attack animation delay? If the sync kill takes the same time as an attack animation how does that delay responsiveness any longer then having to order a unit before any kill?
Creature
Yeah, imo, as long as the sync kill is only one attack animation in length, like a simple swipe in half with a chainsword, I don't see the problem. If the unit decides to cut the other guy into pieces, that might look grim dark and all, but it significantly delays responsiveness.
Bezagron
Well I think we also need to take into consideration the zoom level of our view. The further out we go the less finer detail will be noticed. So a simple cut in half would work better.
I think the trick is having 1 or 2 unique kill animations that play occasionally for different attack types & weapons. Like flamer standard infantry death is model falls over & has a burning effect that fades to a burnt effect. Then a unique kill for the flamer infantry death is the model running around like a living torch on fire before falling over to die. This special kill wouldn't play on every model death or could not even play on wiping out a whole squad.
It's about making special death/kill animations that have a chance/condition to play on top of the base death animation.
If at worst death animations tied to weapons used for the kill. So Assault Marines are going to leave the bodies of they foes in pieces as they've been cut apart by chainswords. Dreadnought smash will leave less body part but one massive blood strain as foes have been turned to pulp.
RaspberryTurtle
At the very least I expect synch Kills between Hero/Walker units...
Creature
Like hero vs hero or walker vs walker? I would not like sync kills for hero or walker vs simple line units because of the reduced responsiveness. But a hero killing another hero, and especially a super unit killing another super unit, I would be willing to sacrifice some responsiveness to see those done with some gusto.
Ellie
having a wraithknight kill the knight like the trailer would be sick. same with the other way round. if they can make less, but cooler sync kills, I'd be fine with that. my biggest problem was that in dow 1/2 like 90% of them are boring as hell, sergeant using bolt pistol on a dude and slashing him a few times, etc. but if they make them happen less, but they always look really nice (like the deff dread killing the marine in the trailer. or the dread killing the banshees in the dow 2 trailer.) than I think it would be worth it if only because you wouldnt get tired of them nearly as quickly.
RaspberryTurtle
Yes, basically any 1v1 situation where "responsiveness" would be a non-issue.
Creature
I can agree to that. I would say responsiveness will still be a slight issue because the enemy can still move units away from your hero during the sync kill animation, but 1v1 scenarios would not happen so very often to make it a big issue. It would also make sync kills more special and noticeable, imo.
reach
One is consistent and one is random.
Dranu
If kill syncs weren't random and they added a ton with the same time frame, the controll issue would go out the window as it would be certain and expected (and stratagized over)
Bezagron
Not really if both have the same animation duration. It's just changing the visual for example of a chainsword swing. Both are a consistent animation duration, both lock you out of control as such for that animation. The randomness comes only from not always seeing the foe cut in half all the time on their death.
reach
Is it even worth putting in the game?
Why not just have the death animation be the thing that reacts to the different attack animations. Then you have as much time as you want.
Bezagron
Favour, a unique aspect that highlights & enhances the games atmosphere that futher ties it into the "Grimdark" of the 40k universe.
Also to give it this visual spectator reward that actually makes combat an enjoyment to watch time & again.
Like without it how often would you just watch the animated combat for the combat it is. And think that was a cool moment before refocusing on the players interactions.
Psychodrake
Sync kills are part of the reason DoW never really became boring. The battles are always fun to watch. I still occasionally blast up Dark Crusade to watch the Bloodthirster running around batting units with his axe and squeeze blood out of them.
Total War Warhammer has some sync-kills that work flawlessly too, and the battles in that game are never a bore. Giants picking up a soldier and slamming it into the rest of the group is just great. The Chaos Dragon does the same thing, swinging a guy around in its mouth and slamming it into his own regiment. Good stuff, fits Warhammer, looks good, feels good, doesn't obstruct my gameplay personally. TWW is much slower paced, yes, but unit control is still important and never feels hampered - although the game does punish retreats with surrounds quite readily.
Sync kills could easily be worked around in a way that keeps control. Allowing the unit to move and the sync-killing character to catch up is a simple fix. But honestly, I don't recall ever having a problem with a unit getting stuck during a sync-kill, it's just people prioritising the highest skilled gamers while ignoring the majority of the playerbase. SC2 combat isn't fun to watch, cool death animations or not, they get old very quickly, as well as units only having a single attack animation.
Bezagron
And I think that an important aspect. Having visual exciting to watch. This would also play into esports as if it's exciting to watch even people that don't fully understand can get enjoyment out of it. If they enjoy it enough they might even pick it up.
DeathAttacker
Didn't even notice that. I'm sure that can't be right though as SM not firing on the move would be pretty stupid. Particularly close combat varients such as bolt pistols. I hope this isn't going to be another "we dropped this in the name of improving clarity"
Saffron
I can't tell you how much I will be disappointed if they don't add it, I might not even buy game then
shmoulki
The serie of DoW changes at every episode, we can't really expect to find the same elements from the previous games into the next one.
Relic stated (a lot of times) that their focus for this one is on responsiveness and clarity. You can forget about sync kills as we knew them in Dow1 and especially Dow2.
Maybe they'll implement some cool visuals and various animations but there won't be any loss of dps, invulnerability or units stuck even for 1 second.
They already gave up on the grimdark atmosphere with the cartoon artstyle. Cartoon sync kills have no place in that game.
Psychodrake
Then why even bother buying the game? The majority of DoW players are 40k fans.
No grimdark, check.
Lore breaking, check.
Combat no longer enjoyable to watch, check.
Take the DoW out of DoW, check.
Looking like a bad checklist to me. Relic would gut themselves by changing it this heavily.
Ellie
the combat in dow 3 already looks more enjoyable to watch compared to dow 2 simply because it isnt a bunch of people taking potshots at eachother from behind rocks. grimdark is something that can be achieved by the setting as well as the colors. previous dawn of wars are as well very much lore breaking. gameplay trumps lore for the most part, and dow 3 isnt that lore breaking anyways outside of a few little annoyances. I dont understand how sync kills are supposed to be included in the game, and if its not, people wont buy it? that sounds extremely shallow. and also something that wont happen. people will buy it because its a good game, not because its grimdark, or 40k. theres plenty of grimdark 40k games that suck, and it shows, and guess what, no one's bought them, because the gameplay sucked.
Psychodrake
By your logic, DoW1 and DoW2 were bad games. They had plenty of adherence to lore and actual fun features that could cause gameplay issues, but people didn't care outside of the tiny proportion of top players. Both games are still being played which proves their overall success.
Yes, some people won't buy a Dawn of War game if it doesn't feel like Dawn of War. that's how series work. If the game ends up feeling nothing like a DoW game, it might as well have been renamed. This comes down to both gameplay and visual style. Nobody would have a problem if the game was under a different name instead of using the DoW name to keep the old fanbase around.
Ever notice how the Halo series dropped off after Bungie stopped developing it? That's because of significant changes to gameplay and visuals. Ever wonder why Call of Duty does so well? Because it adheres to its own conventions in each game without treading too far out to alienate the fanbase.
Also I put bad sales of 40k games down to poor advertising. 40k is niche, and 40k players enjoy quality. Dawn of War is probably the highest quality 40k series, and so it has kind of stuck with players.
shmoulki
Dow2 had almost nothing to do with Dow1, and still it's the same serie of game. Dow 3 is clearly not the game i wished with the atmosphere i expected but the game will be good, it will surprises me like Dow2 surprised me. It's a new game and at least we cannot blame Relic to avoid risks and not to innovate. Sometimes it works (Dow2) sometimes it's a disappointment (Diablo 3)
I hate SC2, it feels like an old game stuck in the 90's with the exact same boring game mechanisms of SC1.
Dow2 innovated and it was great. Dow3 is innovating and it will be great too.
Bezagron
I think this is a great perspective. We say we want the same as before, "The Rose Tinted Glasses" but then also complain when it's the same & nothing new has be added. Like how many people would just buy a reskin of graphics, maybe the 1st time but what about the 2nd, the 3th, the 4th what then. We can already get the full experience from the first game let alone the 2nd, 3th & 4th.. We grave new experiences & get bored with if everything just stays the same.
Dranu
Agreed!! I am not looking for Starcraft with 40k skins for the units.
Mr_Ruin
Finishers could be fast (Chainsword cutting in half, Thunderhammer throwing a unit several metres, plasma guns making large holes, bolters exploding heads) so there goes main reason behind not including them - clarity and responsiveness. Not including them is a clear departure from what made Dawn of War iconic.
If they make a copy of Starcraft mechanics (Void ray lascannons, heroes being bigger than rest of units) with some additions like squads instead of individuals it will just be another game destined to die soon cause you cannot defeat ammount of polish Blizzard is famed for.
MiniCloud
Sync kills is a must have of the dow franchise (as much as the cover system, but that's another story)
there is also an easy way to allow sync kills without having alot of problems with it :
that would allow the sync kills to be part of the game, to not be an animation lock problem, and not taking too long for it to be a problem in certain situations.
shmoulki
none of this can work
-it will make weird animations and that means you should micro every unit making a sync kill so it would attack instead of being useles:smile
sync kills must be full part of the gameplay or they shouldn't be there.
one option should be that after a sync kill the unit will have an attack and movement buff to compensate, it should be a % reward, a little bit like special attacks but involving the unit getting a kill.
Dranu
Agreed, there are still many ways to leave in sync kills without serious hampering the few members of the whole competitive e-sports crowd who do not care much about aesthetics. I hope there is not a big budget issue liked there seemed to be in DOW2.