Anyways, I would like to see a comment from @IntoTheRainbow about upcoming new content in February, even if he is not with us anymore. But he might be a bit happy that the game is still supported by Relic, even if it is usually silent. Though I understand that most companies go silent in regards to news, because giving a roadmap is nice, but what I know it also gives a risk of dissapointing fans when failing to deliver a content at set date or sticking to roadmap. I realized that from Stardock in Ashes of Singularity's case. But hey, always we would like to see more news from Relic.
I've been out of DoW3 for a long time. Played the beta and then the game or 60ish hours, but the META killed it. One way to win every time, people spamming it for their side. I came back for Endless War, to see very little progress had been made. My friends are all the same.
To give an example for past players like my friends and myself to return for the longer term, it'd need to be more then a new race. A new race would signal to all previous players that stuff has changed and might bring them back to try it, but if the game is still ruined by everything else, they'll just leave again. Here is a quick list of some things that have put me off DoW3:
Balance - The META is too strong, you cannot overcome it or counter it. It isn't fun. They need to get the balance back to a way where you don't go into a game with a build already in mind, but instead you see who your opponents are, what they are building, and then play vs that.
Doctrines - This is messing up balance and gameplay. You set doctrines pre-game, get in to a match and build around them, else you'll be at a disadvantage. This means it's much more likely people go into games with the winning META builds in mind and already setup, there isn't any flexibility. They should be moved into the game, either as level up bonuses for squads, upgrades or research.
Elites - I still don't really like them, or at least the mechanics around them. It's nice to have some unique power units at each tier, but you have to pick them before your match. I'd prefer them to be more dynamic and chosen/build during the match.
Escalation phases - I don't think these work well. Depending on how the game goes early, can predetermine the outcome.
There are a lot of things they can change, but if they don't do anything major around the core of the game balance, no matter what races/maps/modes get added, not that many people will come back and stay.
Yeah its true spam is kinda boring to see i would really like to see less units early game and also more upgrades and squadleaders for example. That would give the game more depth and would allow for more tactical kind of play especially early game. Now its just a spam fest. Sure you need to control your units well and try to win fights but because of the refund and high base req income spam is so frequently to be seen.
Also with more upgrades and squadleaders you would be forced to watch your units better. Less base req income would allow for less units early on or at least that you need to watch out for them better and more kind of tactical play instead of throwing dozens of squads into early fights and just rebuilding them in case that you lose some.... Also map control would be more importand, it maybe should not be to importand tho cause if 1 player or team controls a larger part of the map it should not be an auto win.
Doctrins dictate your playstyle way to much. Ingame you dont have to many choices to go for a different tactic especially early game. It would be nice if less doctrins would be seen and therefore more upgrades that you can make ingame.
Im fine with elites and how it works now. Its ok for me to chose them before the game starts and how it all works out with them.
Yeah its true spam is kinda boring and frequently to be seen. Thats because of the high base req income and because of the refund of course in phase 1. Now every average player can spam dozens of units and throw them into fights and kind of just rebuild them once you lose some squads. I would like to see more ingame upgrades and squadleaders that would allow for some more tactical play and you need to watch out for your units better then as well. I would like to see less units or at least that you cannot just rebuild units as you want kind of also map control doesnt matter to much but i think that if 1 player or 1 team controls a larger part of the map that it should not be an auto win.
Im fine with elites and how they work out now, its ok for me to chose them before the game starts and all else about them.
Doctrins dictate your playstyle way to much, ingame you dont have to many choices to go for a different tactic especially early game cause you need to use then what your doctrins will boost up.
I would really like to see less doctrins and therefore more upgrades that you can make ingame and as i said squadleaders, that would give the game more depth and would allow for more tactical kind of play instead of throwing as many units into the fight as you can. Units that you have now are just units if you lose some you rebuild them. Upgrades and squadleaders would make it more so that you need to watch out for the squads that you have and not just look what you lost and to rebuild that.
Yeah its true spam is very frequently to be seen due to the high base req income and refund in phase 1. I would really like to see less squads or at least that you cannot just throw as many units into the fight as you want kind of and just to rebuild what you lost.
Im fine with elites and how they work out and that you need to chose them before the game starts.
Doctrins dictate your playstyle way to much. You cannot really go for a different tactic especially early game, you need to use what your doctrins will boost up. I would like to see less doctrins and therefore more ingame upgrades and if possible squadleaders, that would give the game more depth and would allow for some more tactical kind of play instead of just throwing units into the fight and rebuild what you lost.
Lets see what they will do with the game, it looks like they are up to change things. If they listen to the community but please not to every average guy and to proper change how the game works and to also add a new race or even multiple races anytime soon then i think this game has still a big potential to become popular. There are alot of warhammer fans out there, also people who look out for a good rts. I think dow3 is a great rts but its very bland at the moment due to the spam mechanics.
Also we need a spectator mode please this cannot be so hard. It allows streamers to stream tourneys or just custom games between top players. Players can hang out with each other and organize customs and just have fun.
@Noother said:
I've been out of DoW3 for a long time. Played the beta and then the game or 60ish hours, but the META killed it. One way to win every time, people spamming it for their side. I came back for Endless War, to see very little progress had been made. My friends are all the same.
To give an example for past players like my friends and myself to return for the longer term, it'd need to be more then a new race. A new race would signal to all previous players that stuff has changed and might bring them back to try it, but if the game is still ruined by everything else, they'll just leave again. Here is a quick list of some things that have put me off DoW3:
Balance - The META is too strong, you cannot overcome it or counter it. It isn't fun. They need to get the balance back to a way where you don't go into a game with a build already in mind, but instead you see who your opponents are, what they are building, and then play vs that.
Agreed and this will be addressed sooner or later. Balance is a job for devs that never ends.
Doctrines - This is messing up balance and gameplay. You set doctrines pre-game, get in to a match and build around them, else you'll be at a disadvantage. This means it's much more likely people go into games with the winning META builds in mind and already setup, there isn't any flexibility. They should be moved into the game, either as level up bonuses for squads, upgrades or research.
>
Just like anything doctrines can be reworked to improve balance. No reason to remove them entirely. Winning or powerful METAS were and are pretty much in every RTS game you play. Except for Star craft but that game has been out for so long and blizz had alot of time fine tuning their games but even then there are some solid metas that will get you pretty far up the ladder. I have yet to see one RTS game be released and not have cheeze or strong metas. Again this takes time to clear up.
I really like the idea behind doctrines to personalize my army. Just it requires more work and ofcourse its not perfect atm. But if they keep at it i can see it turning out good. I can still remember all the peeps calling for some indepth army costumization and now that relic brought us something new (yet unrefined) everyone is screaming. Granted i know where people are coming from and there are challenges to overcome but people have already written it off as unfixable. Why not both? Doctrines and ingame upgrades that are worth it. DoW 3 has the potential to be the DoW with the most variety and army personalization.
Elites - I still don't really like them, or at least the mechanics around them. It's nice to have some unique power units at each tier, but you have to pick them before your match. I'd prefer them to be more dynamic and chosen/build during the match.
>
This goes back to army personalization and picking elites to suit your playstyle or augment your tactics with. I like the idea behind elites but again they need to work on it a lil more. DoW 2 had commander choices and people liked them. DoW 3 went way further with this elite system.
Escalation phases - I don't think these work well. Depending on how the game goes early, can predetermine the outcome.
Yeah not too big of a fan of this economy. And the mechanic. Not sure how they will deal with this. Originally i think they wanted the game to feel like DoW 2 early game and DoW 1 end game.
There are a lot of things they can change, but if they don't do anything major around the core of the game balance, no matter what races/maps/modes get added, not that many people will come back and stay.
And alot of these things are probably being worked on. I just rather have them fix things that actually need fixing.
@0riginal_z0M said:
Literally I would pay someones wages at Relic for a year to make an out of game chat lobby with a new race in FEB.
You gave me a very silly idea. Is it possible to make a kickstarter for donations? Someone could make a kickstarter to donate money to Relic to make a new race or whatever. I'm sure there's some legal reason why this would be a problem for Relic and they would shut it down. It would make for some publicity though. I can imagine a PC Gamer article about the game with fans so dedicated that they are putting up donations for development. Again, this is a silly idea and I am in no way encouraging it. It would be interesting to see how many people are willing to donate. I'd give $15 american.
@0riginal_z0M said:
Literally I would pay someones wages at Relic for a year to make an out of game chat lobby with a new race in FEB.
You gave me a very silly idea. Is it possible to make a kickstarter for donations? Someone could make a kickstarter to donate money to Relic to make a new race or whatever. I'm sure there's some legal reason why this would be a problem for Relic and they would shut it down. It would make for some publicity though. I can imagine a PC Gamer article about the game with fans so dedicated that they are putting up donations for development. Again, this is a silly idea and I am in no way encouraging it. It would be interesting to see how many people are willing to donate. I'd give $15 american.
I would like to see if they would change something with doctrins. Doctrins dictate your playstyle way to much, ingame you dont really have many choices to go for a different tactic especially early game. You need to use what your doctrins will boost. Would be nice to see more ingame upgrades and squadleaders instead that would allow for some more tactical play and it would give the game more depths.
Also i dont really like the spam mechanics sure dow is normally all about having huge armys but in the first minutes of the game it shouldnt be so easy to pump units out and kind of just rebuild what you lost due to the refund system. The base req income seems a bit to high which makes spam so frequent, having map control is not really as importand early game but i also think that having map control in general should not mean to auto win.
Im fine with elites that you need to chose them before the game starts and how they work.
Dow3 also really needs a spectator mode, just so streamers can live stream regular custom games or tourney games.
Dow3 still has a huge potentital to become popular relic just needs to listen to the people but please not to every average player. There are alot of warhammer fans out there and fans of the dawnofwar series, also people which look out for a good rts. This game needs more races and more content in general, less spam, more tactical play and a better campaign. Then im convinced people will love this game.
@0riginal_z0M said:
Literally I would pay someones wages at Relic for a year to make an out of game chat lobby with a new race in FEB.
You gave me a very silly idea. Is it possible to make a kickstarter for donations? Someone could make a kickstarter to donate money to Relic to make a new race or whatever. I'm sure there's some legal reason why this would be a problem for Relic and they would shut it down. It would make for some publicity though. I can imagine a PC Gamer article about the game with fans so dedicated that they are putting up donations for development. Again, this is a silly idea and I am in no way encouraging it. It would be interesting to see how many people are willing to donate. I'd give $15 american.
Since when did Relic become a small indie development studio without a big publisher? I do not mind financially supporting the further development of DoW 3, but then please with compensation. WH40K offers tons of cosmetic content that Relic can sell by microtransaction. DoW 2 did it before:
Or something like that:
I admit that you also have to invest time to implement it. But Relic would have at least an additional financing concept to get from its SEGA overlords budget for an expansion.
Please note, I mean only cosmetic content, as they do not affect the balance and are only intended to individualize armies. So NO pay-to-win elites or anything like that!
@VanceStubbs_86 said:
Please note, I mean only cosmetic content, as they do not affect the balance and are only intended to individualize armies. So NO pay-to-win elites or anything like that!
Well pay-to-win elites are no longer a problem thanks to removal of skulls and new elites being for free!
Lol, CoH2 is based on your "play-to-win" thing and is, somehow, successful in the sales department. Well, it's pretty much was given away on the constant stream of sales followed after release, so real development money had risen through this "pay-to-win" and WFA lately (except for OKW-only being a part of humble bundle sale somewhere around 2 months after WFA release, though that was A Marketing Move, indeed).
Imo, DoW3 need this as well. There is nothing wrong with offering Elites packs as long as those within it is not OP as hell. Lately, Relic can shift this weight to MP races, because, yeeesh, with system as flexible as they have, they can add a lot of them.
Those references are quite funny, though, Vance. That "Ridiculousl Money Moneygrub" especially. I don't know if it's still here, but there was a video in review section with author turning this on via mod tools.
Some of these cosmetics weren't really popular with people, from my point of view. Not like it's really wrong to try it (I will get myself a thing or two, but will only use it to ridicule others, if ever).
@Ololo111 said:
Lol, CoH2 is based on your "play-to-win" thing and is, somehow, successful in the sales department. Well, it's pretty much was given away on the constant stream of sales followed after release, so real development money had risen through this "pay-to-win" and WFA lately (except for OKW-only being a part of humble bundle sale somewhere around 2 months after WFA release, though that was A Marketing Move, indeed).
Imo, DoW3 need this as well. There is nothing wrong with offering Elites packs as long as those within it is not OP as hell. Lately, Relic can shift this weight to MP races, because, yeeesh, with system as flexible as they have, they can add a lot of them.
Those references are quite funny, though, Vance. That "Ridiculousl Money Moneygrub" especially. I don't know if it's still here, but there was a video in review section with author turning this on via mod tools.
Some of these cosmetics weren't really popular with people, from my point of view. Not like it's really wrong to try it (I will get myself a thing or two, but will only use it to ridicule others, if ever).
But CoH 2 has an ingame currency to buy new content. Relic has removed the skulls in DoW 3. So no grinding. What you suggest is to put game-influencing contant behind a paywall. That may be okay if the game is free-to-play. But DoW 3 is a full-price title! I can already see the next shitstorm on the horizon when buyable content gives an advantage to a player. Just look at the meltdown of Battlefront 2.
Besides, I did not ask if cosmetic content is worth its money or how popular it is with people. It is the free decision of people to spend money on some prettier shoulder armor. Anyway, that would be a better alternative than simply donate money.
Well, I guess you have a way more things to balance in RTS game than in 3D-action one. After all, aren't new factions game-influencing? Those influence every single one that already have been added, I think. If you don't have the choice to pick more "macro-based" when general macro is your thing, you're kind of disadvantaged against "micro" players in a common sense.
It's all about the level a game is balanced at. Imagine Vendread was a new paid Elite and compare it with other EP7'es: A-Termies would bash him 1 on 1 without a chance, so does Ironclad, Maddread and Wraithknight, even EP6 Megas got a chance against him when microed right. Not being able to pick him is not really different from not being able to pick a speciffic race that could have allowed you to win against particullar player, so nothing wrong to make them paid as well.
Let's be realisits: Relic have to invest to provide new content. Those beatiful results they've achieved with CoH2 came at expense of flushing multiple generations of new players with even newer once. Just look at that very grind mechanism: it wasn't Supply = Skulls from the very beginning. There was no such thing to get any "premium"(commanders) content prior 2014, when crates with RNG-affected Commanders arrived (different stats\cost on abilities and call-ins, and if you happened to miss it, I really mean that), then normal once have started to drop since 2015 and only in 2017 it was allowed to salvage duplicates into the grind-equiolent, that very Supply.
The scheme is.. well, it smells of good marketing. Because grinding in 2014 was a visible option with some underestiamted consequences: RNG was favouring in >10% over the straight buyed content (and balance was some proper mess), but it visibly provided a replacement to even "grindier" one, so (Community) Commanders was a subject of jokes of Relic's growing competence back to the time, forcing many people who got into the game to buy themselves proper ones by the way.
They've bought it and in 2015 received a duplicate, when reward on the grinding increased, just like those people who sticked to the farming, And this year, Supply made apearance, so someone like me, who had already bought everything that wasn't UP with a ton of duplicates, could have benefited from that to it's all. Like, seriously, I may even scrap those Commanders that turned into duplicates 2 years ago and buy each and every bullet-in (while these were mercilessly nerfed). And the background is CoH2 being discounted each 2 months with it's base price cut.. I can't really say how many times it was.
Somehow, it's not surprises me for a second when I see new Relic customers who got themselves 60 USD game and was expecting it be CoH2 of the 2017'es - when the DoW3 is in the state of 2015'es if I'm to compare it with the previous title - ragging over new game with this kind of history.
It backfired and backfired badly, to my mind. Relic got no public to trap in the epihmeric expectations right now. Yet, they have those very people who enjoyed their creation and would want to see it being developped.
And it would have been super cool if those folks could had been a bit more pragmatic. FREE (because it became a tradition to put this into CAPITALS) content won't come for free. Personally, I would have preffered for last 3 Elites to be paid, because it would indicate that Relic is struggling to market DoW3 yet, but are continuing it's development neverthless (the following events made me think they are deciding on it).
If it's the choice between 6 FREE Elites and 1 race as a parting gift coming next year and 33 paid ones with 2 races.. well, even if I won't be able to afford this all at once, I will preffer the later.
Because there are more straight ways to deliver new content than playing on overrated expectations.
@Delete said:
There need complete rework for the game. New races, new maps, new heroes and blablabla won't save the game that doesn't work at its core.
These are not overrated expectations when people buy a game for 60 USD or more and expect enough content for their money. That is completely normal. The content of DoW 3 for the release was unfortunately more than small. Also the post-release support can be summarized with "too late, too little". In an environment of moderate reviews and dwindling numbers of players, Relic would have asked you to spend money on elites and maps?! I do not think so.
So how can you support DoW 3 in the future? While I find it remarkable that some people want to support Relic, I find a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter exaggerated. Not as long as there are other ways of financing. That was the basic idea of offering cosmetic content. There are some games that are very successful with this distribution model.
Besides, nobody spoke of whole races as a gift. It would be utopian to believe and it would be bad for business too. In any case, I do not think Relic should withhold elites when players spend no more money. Then rather 33 elite skins for which one can spend money.
Significant changes to the gameplay is the only thing that makes sense. The modern business model for most PC games is based around DLC, and you need players to sell the DLC to. A lot of people had significant problems with aspects of the gameplay and they're not going to be enticed back with maps and skins. There have been lots of success stories lately about games being rebuilt to player satisfaction after disappointing launches; Rainbow Six: Siege was something of a disaster at launch and look at it now.
My guess is the bigger portion of it is adding directional cover back into the series. It jives with what the dev was saying about not announcing until they're 100% sure it can be done, and if you're crazy, the "we have obstacles to overcome" is a clue/pun too . The game wasn't designed with it in mind so it would take a lot of rejiggering under the hood. I can't picture such a comment describing like changing the economy, rebalancing units, making elites cost resources, etc. That's easy.
@Graphic said:
Significant changes to the gameplay is the only thing that makes sense. The modern business model for most PC games is based around DLC, and you need players to sell the DLC to. A lot of people had significant problems with aspects of the gameplay and they're not going to be enticed back with maps and skins. There have been lots of success stories lately about games being rebuilt to player satisfaction after disappointing launches; Rainbow Six: Siege was something of a disaster at launch and look at it now.
My guess is the bigger portion of it is adding directional cover back into the series. It jives with what the dev was saying about not announcing until they're 100% sure it can be done, and if you're crazy, the "we have obstacles to overcome" is a clue/pun too . The game wasn't designed with it in mind so it would take a lot of rejiggering under the hood. I can't picture such a comment describing like changing the economy, rebalancing units, making elites cost resources, etc. That's easy.
the engine isn't much different from the version coh2 used, there is nothing that needs to be done engine wise for cover to work. (the bubbles are actually using the same code). They do need to model some cover pieces however, depending on how much they can use current map objects for it.
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Comments
CANNED_F3TUS
I would like see something like SC 2s alliance commanders in DoW 3. With army leveling giving you unique abilities and perks.
Draconix
Nice ideas for Coop.
Anyways, I would like to see a comment from @IntoTheRainbow about upcoming new content in February, even if he is not with us anymore. But he might be a bit happy that the game is still supported by Relic, even if it is usually silent. Though I understand that most companies go silent in regards to news, because giving a roadmap is nice, but what I know it also gives a risk of dissapointing fans when failing to deliver a content at set date or sticking to roadmap. I realized that from Stardock in Ashes of Singularity's case. But hey, always we would like to see more news from Relic.
Noother
I've been out of DoW3 for a long time. Played the beta and then the game or 60ish hours, but the META killed it. One way to win every time, people spamming it for their side. I came back for Endless War, to see very little progress had been made. My friends are all the same.
To give an example for past players like my friends and myself to return for the longer term, it'd need to be more then a new race. A new race would signal to all previous players that stuff has changed and might bring them back to try it, but if the game is still ruined by everything else, they'll just leave again. Here is a quick list of some things that have put me off DoW3:
There are a lot of things they can change, but if they don't do anything major around the core of the game balance, no matter what races/maps/modes get added, not that many people will come back and stay.
Spirit
Yeah its true spam is kinda boring to see i would really like to see less units early game and also more upgrades and squadleaders for example. That would give the game more depth and would allow for more tactical kind of play especially early game. Now its just a spam fest. Sure you need to control your units well and try to win fights but because of the refund and high base req income spam is so frequently to be seen.
Also with more upgrades and squadleaders you would be forced to watch your units better. Less base req income would allow for less units early on or at least that you need to watch out for them better and more kind of tactical play instead of throwing dozens of squads into early fights and just rebuilding them in case that you lose some.... Also map control would be more importand, it maybe should not be to importand tho cause if 1 player or team controls a larger part of the map it should not be an auto win.
Doctrins dictate your playstyle way to much. Ingame you dont have to many choices to go for a different tactic especially early game. It would be nice if less doctrins would be seen and therefore more upgrades that you can make ingame.
Im fine with elites and how it works now. Its ok for me to chose them before the game starts and how it all works out with them.
Spirit
Yeah its true spam is kinda boring and frequently to be seen. Thats because of the high base req income and because of the refund of course in phase 1. Now every average player can spam dozens of units and throw them into fights and kind of just rebuild them once you lose some squads. I would like to see more ingame upgrades and squadleaders that would allow for some more tactical play and you need to watch out for your units better then as well. I would like to see less units or at least that you cannot just rebuild units as you want kind of also map control doesnt matter to much but i think that if 1 player or 1 team controls a larger part of the map that it should not be an auto win.
Im fine with elites and how they work out now, its ok for me to chose them before the game starts and all else about them.
Doctrins dictate your playstyle way to much, ingame you dont have to many choices to go for a different tactic especially early game cause you need to use then what your doctrins will boost up.
I would really like to see less doctrins and therefore more upgrades that you can make ingame and as i said squadleaders, that would give the game more depth and would allow for more tactical kind of play instead of throwing as many units into the fight as you can. Units that you have now are just units if you lose some you rebuild them. Upgrades and squadleaders would make it more so that you need to watch out for the squads that you have and not just look what you lost and to rebuild that.
Spirit
Yeah its true spam is very frequently to be seen due to the high base req income and refund in phase 1. I would really like to see less squads or at least that you cannot just throw as many units into the fight as you want kind of and just to rebuild what you lost.
Im fine with elites and how they work out and that you need to chose them before the game starts.
Doctrins dictate your playstyle way to much. You cannot really go for a different tactic especially early game, you need to use what your doctrins will boost up. I would like to see less doctrins and therefore more ingame upgrades and if possible squadleaders, that would give the game more depth and would allow for some more tactical kind of play instead of just throwing units into the fight and rebuild what you lost.
Lets see what they will do with the game, it looks like they are up to change things. If they listen to the community but please not to every average guy and to proper change how the game works and to also add a new race or even multiple races anytime soon then i think this game has still a big potential to become popular. There are alot of warhammer fans out there, also people who look out for a good rts. I think dow3 is a great rts but its very bland at the moment due to the spam mechanics.
Also we need a spectator mode please this cannot be so hard. It allows streamers to stream tourneys or just custom games between top players. Players can hang out with each other and organize customs and just have fun.
CANNED_F3TUS
Agreed and this will be addressed sooner or later. Balance is a job for devs that never ends.
>
Just like anything doctrines can be reworked to improve balance. No reason to remove them entirely. Winning or powerful METAS were and are pretty much in every RTS game you play. Except for Star craft but that game has been out for so long and blizz had alot of time fine tuning their games but even then there are some solid metas that will get you pretty far up the ladder. I have yet to see one RTS game be released and not have cheeze or strong metas. Again this takes time to clear up.
I really like the idea behind doctrines to personalize my army. Just it requires more work and ofcourse its not perfect atm. But if they keep at it i can see it turning out good. I can still remember all the peeps calling for some indepth army costumization and now that relic brought us something new (yet unrefined) everyone is screaming. Granted i know where people are coming from and there are challenges to overcome but people have already written it off as unfixable. Why not both? Doctrines and ingame upgrades that are worth it. DoW 3 has the potential to be the DoW with the most variety and army personalization.
>
This goes back to army personalization and picking elites to suit your playstyle or augment your tactics with. I like the idea behind elites but again they need to work on it a lil more. DoW 2 had commander choices and people liked them. DoW 3 went way further with this elite system.
Yeah not too big of a fan of this economy. And the mechanic. Not sure how they will deal with this. Originally i think they wanted the game to feel like DoW 2 early game and DoW 1 end game.
And alot of these things are probably being worked on. I just rather have them fix things that actually need fixing.
Thunderhost
Give me convenience content or give me death!
0riginal_z0M
Literally I would pay someones wages at Relic for a year to make an out of game chat lobby with a new race in FEB.
TokyoDream
You gave me a very silly idea. Is it possible to make a kickstarter for donations? Someone could make a kickstarter to donate money to Relic to make a new race or whatever. I'm sure there's some legal reason why this would be a problem for Relic and they would shut it down. It would make for some publicity though. I can imagine a PC Gamer article about the game with fans so dedicated that they are putting up donations for development. Again, this is a silly idea and I am in no way encouraging it. It would be interesting to see how many people are willing to donate. I'd give $15 american.
Atlas
Wow, sounds like a lot of what I wanted is already in this thread, awesome.
CANNED_F3TUS
Relic wont allow it.
Ololo111
Direction is sure different, but they had allowed this https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1465880926/coh2-grand-championship-series
The idea is not silly, but it's not matured for sure.
Spirit
I would like to see if they would change something with doctrins. Doctrins dictate your playstyle way to much, ingame you dont really have many choices to go for a different tactic especially early game. You need to use what your doctrins will boost. Would be nice to see more ingame upgrades and squadleaders instead that would allow for some more tactical play and it would give the game more depths.
Also i dont really like the spam mechanics sure dow is normally all about having huge armys but in the first minutes of the game it shouldnt be so easy to pump units out and kind of just rebuild what you lost due to the refund system. The base req income seems a bit to high which makes spam so frequent, having map control is not really as importand early game but i also think that having map control in general should not mean to auto win.
Im fine with elites that you need to chose them before the game starts and how they work.
Dow3 also really needs a spectator mode, just so streamers can live stream regular custom games or tourney games.
Dow3 still has a huge potentital to become popular relic just needs to listen to the people but please not to every average player. There are alot of warhammer fans out there and fans of the dawnofwar series, also people which look out for a good rts. This game needs more races and more content in general, less spam, more tactical play and a better campaign. Then im convinced people will love this game.
VanceStubbs_86
Since when did Relic become a small indie development studio without a big publisher? I do not mind financially supporting the further development of DoW 3, but then please with compensation. WH40K offers tons of cosmetic content that Relic can sell by microtransaction. DoW 2 did it before:
Or something like that:
I admit that you also have to invest time to implement it. But Relic would have at least an additional financing concept to get from its SEGA overlords budget for an expansion.
Please note, I mean only cosmetic content, as they do not affect the balance and are only intended to individualize armies. So NO pay-to-win elites or anything like that!
Draconix
Well pay-to-win elites are no longer a problem thanks to removal of skulls and new elites being for free!
Ololo111
Lol, CoH2 is based on your "play-to-win" thing and is, somehow, successful in the sales department. Well, it's pretty much was given away on the constant stream of sales followed after release, so real development money had risen through this "pay-to-win" and WFA lately (except for OKW-only being a part of humble bundle sale somewhere around 2 months after WFA release, though that was A Marketing Move, indeed).
Imo, DoW3 need this as well. There is nothing wrong with offering Elites packs as long as those within it is not OP as hell. Lately, Relic can shift this weight to MP races, because, yeeesh, with system as flexible as they have, they can add a lot of them.
Those references are quite funny, though, Vance. That "Ridiculousl Money Moneygrub" especially. I don't know if it's still here, but there was a video in review section with author turning this on via mod tools.
Some of these cosmetics weren't really popular with people, from my point of view. Not like it's really wrong to try it (I will get myself a thing or two, but will only use it to ridicule others, if ever).
VanceStubbs_86
But CoH 2 has an ingame currency to buy new content. Relic has removed the skulls in DoW 3. So no grinding. What you suggest is to put game-influencing contant behind a paywall. That may be okay if the game is free-to-play. But DoW 3 is a full-price title! I can already see the next shitstorm on the horizon when buyable content gives an advantage to a player. Just look at the meltdown of Battlefront 2.
Besides, I did not ask if cosmetic content is worth its money or how popular it is with people. It is the free decision of people to spend money on some prettier shoulder armor. Anyway, that would be a better alternative than simply donate money.
satan6666666
Only way is release new races.
If not, I will let it burn.
Froh
Still waiting for The Last Stand
Ololo111
@VanceStubbs_86
Well, I guess you have a way more things to balance in RTS game than in 3D-action one. After all, aren't new factions game-influencing? Those influence every single one that already have been added, I think. If you don't have the choice to pick more "macro-based" when general macro is your thing, you're kind of disadvantaged against "micro" players in a common sense.
It's all about the level a game is balanced at. Imagine Vendread was a new paid Elite and compare it with other EP7'es: A-Termies would bash him 1 on 1 without a chance, so does Ironclad, Maddread and Wraithknight, even EP6 Megas got a chance against him when microed right. Not being able to pick him is not really different from not being able to pick a speciffic race that could have allowed you to win against particullar player, so nothing wrong to make them paid as well.
Let's be realisits: Relic have to invest to provide new content. Those beatiful results they've achieved with CoH2 came at expense of flushing multiple generations of new players with even newer once. Just look at that very grind mechanism: it wasn't Supply = Skulls from the very beginning. There was no such thing to get any "premium"(commanders) content prior 2014, when crates with RNG-affected Commanders arrived (different stats\cost on abilities and call-ins, and if you happened to miss it, I really mean that), then normal once have started to drop since 2015 and only in 2017 it was allowed to salvage duplicates into the grind-equiolent, that very Supply.
The scheme is.. well, it smells of good marketing. Because grinding in 2014 was a visible option with some underestiamted consequences: RNG was favouring in >10% over the straight buyed content (and balance was some proper mess), but it visibly provided a replacement to even "grindier" one, so (Community) Commanders was a subject of jokes of Relic's growing competence back to the time, forcing many people who got into the game to buy themselves proper ones by the way.
They've bought it and in 2015 received a duplicate, when reward on the grinding increased, just like those people who sticked to the farming, And this year, Supply made apearance, so someone like me, who had already bought everything that wasn't UP with a ton of duplicates, could have benefited from that to it's all. Like, seriously, I may even scrap those Commanders that turned into duplicates 2 years ago and buy each and every bullet-in (while these were mercilessly nerfed). And the background is CoH2 being discounted each 2 months with it's base price cut.. I can't really say how many times it was.
Somehow, it's not surprises me for a second when I see new Relic customers who got themselves 60 USD game and was expecting it be CoH2 of the 2017'es - when the DoW3 is in the state of 2015'es if I'm to compare it with the previous title - ragging over new game with this kind of history.
It backfired and backfired badly, to my mind. Relic got no public to trap in the epihmeric expectations right now. Yet, they have those very people who enjoyed their creation and would want to see it being developped.
And it would have been super cool if those folks could had been a bit more pragmatic. FREE (because it became a tradition to put this into CAPITALS) content won't come for free. Personally, I would have preffered for last 3 Elites to be paid, because it would indicate that Relic is struggling to market DoW3 yet, but are continuing it's development neverthless (the following events made me think they are deciding on it).
If it's the choice between 6 FREE Elites and 1 race as a parting gift coming next year and 33 paid ones with 2 races.. well, even if I won't be able to afford this all at once, I will preffer the later.
Because there are more straight ways to deliver new content than playing on overrated expectations.
Delete
There need complete rework for the game. New races, new maps, new heroes and blablabla won't save the game that doesn't work at its core.
CANNED_F3TUS
Nope.
VanceStubbs_86
@Ololo111
These are not overrated expectations when people buy a game for 60 USD or more and expect enough content for their money. That is completely normal. The content of DoW 3 for the release was unfortunately more than small. Also the post-release support can be summarized with "too late, too little". In an environment of moderate reviews and dwindling numbers of players, Relic would have asked you to spend money on elites and maps?! I do not think so.
So how can you support DoW 3 in the future? While I find it remarkable that some people want to support Relic, I find a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter exaggerated. Not as long as there are other ways of financing. That was the basic idea of offering cosmetic content. There are some games that are very successful with this distribution model.
Besides, nobody spoke of whole races as a gift. It would be utopian to believe and it would be bad for business too. In any case, I do not think Relic should withhold elites when players spend no more money. Then rather 33 elite skins for which one can spend money.
Graphic
Significant changes to the gameplay is the only thing that makes sense. The modern business model for most PC games is based around DLC, and you need players to sell the DLC to. A lot of people had significant problems with aspects of the gameplay and they're not going to be enticed back with maps and skins. There have been lots of success stories lately about games being rebuilt to player satisfaction after disappointing launches; Rainbow Six: Siege was something of a disaster at launch and look at it now.
My guess is the bigger portion of it is adding directional cover back into the series. It jives with what the dev was saying about not announcing until they're 100% sure it can be done, and if you're crazy, the "we have obstacles to overcome" is a clue/pun too
. The game wasn't designed with it in mind so it would take a lot of rejiggering under the hood. I can't picture such a comment describing like changing the economy, rebalancing units, making elites cost resources, etc. That's easy.
StarSauron
I think DoW3 is a dead end
-not enough people are interested by this game for paid content
-rework will not only be expensive, but also backfire,
they can't make out of DoW3, the game DoW1 and DoW2 fans wanted.
nachocheese
the engine isn't much different from the version coh2 used, there is nothing that needs to be done engine wise for cover to work. (the bubbles are actually using the same code). They do need to model some cover pieces however, depending on how much they can use current map objects for it.
Gorb
It was intentionally removed. Effort has nothing to do with it.
Opinion post.