@Amoc said:
Power core mode was a curious choice, especially considering all of the other quirks and MOBA features that went with it. The lane-based maps, the escalation phases, the focus on elites....
It's hard for me to understand what they were thinking.
DoW1 had line based maps.
DoW2 was the ultimate experience of lane based maps.
Whole CoH series is designed like that with all non open field maps.
And you woke up for that in DoW3?
And about focus on elite, its comparable to that of DoW2, where if your elite was dead too long or killed to soon, you just lost the game and couldn't do anything about it.
Only in DoW1 elites were not strong, but glorified melee tie-up for ranged squads with Tau commander being only actual elite who could do something on its own.
@Martin What about a command point system (similar to CoH 2) which allows you to activate doctrines with command points that are acquired via killing models for XP (the engine can do this and XP is sort of already a thing in DoW 3 so I don't think it would take a lot to implement this idea).
@ReubenUK said: @Martin What about a command point system (similar to CoH 2) which allows you to activate doctrines with command points that are acquired via killing models for XP (the engine can do this and XP is sort of already a thing in DoW 3 so I don't think it would take a lot to implement this idea).
CoH2 CPs are more akin to to EPs with timers as you'll always get certain amount of CP around certain time with rare stomp exceptions.
@REUBENUK It is again just a matter of why, we have the problem that we need a cost to help balance doctrines, and req/power do that job just fine without introducing further new elements we don't know what will happen with. Maybe a xp system or elite points for doctrines system could be good, but I would like to see you give it some more thought and make a more detailed suggestion than that where you can say more about how you expect this new system to impact the game and what the pros and cons are if they are any.
Relic Had said the first patch Should improve the game. Everyone had believed him, but he lied. Now relic saying the febr patch should make the game better. Everyone believes again. The wheel of Samsara makes another turn.
@12ozMouse said:
Relic Had said the first patch Should improve the game. Everyone had believed him, but he lied. Now relic saying the febr patch should make the game better. Everyone believes again. The wheel of Samsara makes another turn.
First patch improved the game.
So did second.
And third.
People who still aren't pleased are people who for whatever reason stick to the insane idea that whole game will be remade into a completely different format.
If you expect balance improvements and possibly new content or faction, these expectation will be met.
If you expect rework of basic systems and mechanics, you need to snort less warp dust.
It also had wide open maps, ridiculous bottleneck maps and also sorts of other lol-worthy designs. The whole game was a lawlfest for MP.
@Katitof said:
DoW2 was the ultimate experience of lane based maps.
At least for some of the maps I'd agree with that.
@Katitof said:
Whole CoH series is designed like that with all non open field maps.
CoH is such a fundamentally different game that the comparison isn't warranted. With all of the cover and destructible environments, I'd hardly say we're looking at "lanes". Roads and bridges perhaps - but in CoH those are key features of map and game design that strongly emphasize effective use of deeper terrain mechanics.
@Katitof said:
And about focus on elite, its comparable to that of DoW2, where if your elite was dead too long or killed to soon, you just lost the game and couldn't do anything about it.
I'm not defending DoW II - a lot of the comparisons are fair. A lot of them are also not, but DoW III is as much a departure from DoW II as DoW II was from DoW I. They're completely different games.
@Martin said:
Previous patches have improved the game I don't know what you are talking about.
LOL! Lowing energy income is a good step?? )) This is THE ONLY RTS with no choice... only spam infantry. First vehicle after 10 mins and it CAN'T do ANYTHING! LOL!
Spam, spam, spam. So exciting... So interesting matches and of course OP eldars. The same state or even worse than we had at release 9 MONTHS AGO!!!
Yeah i agree the game feels very scripted. Its like you must go and spam infantry otherwise you will be on the back foot. You cannot just decide to go very fast t2 and go for vehicles and try to win battles with them cause it will not work out. Only if you are really lucky and have a great power income you can manage to get a relatively fast vehicle out but as soon as av units are being spammed those vehicles become useless very fast as well.
Power income must be higher and req base income should be lower. The game should feel more tactical and less spammy. Im not saying that you dont need skill, you still need to be good at the game, win fights and be good at macro but the whole spam is really getting boring and vehicles are not a fast choice to go for sadly unluke it was in dow1 were you could fast tech with chaos in 5 minutes to t3.
@Martin said:
Previous patches have improved the game I don't know what you are talking about.
LOL! Lowing energy income is a good step?? )) This is THE ONLY RTS with no choice... only spam infantry. First vehicle after 10 mins and it CAN'T do ANYTHING! LOL!
Spam, spam, spam. So exciting... So interesting matches and of course OP eldars. The same state or even worse than we had at release 9 MONTHS AGO!!!
Yeah i agree the game feels very scripted. Its like you must go and spam infantry otherwise you will be on the back foot. You can just decide to go very fast t2 and go for vehicles and try to win battles with them cause it will not work out. Only if you are really lucky and have a great power income you can manage to get a relatively fast vehicle out but as soon as av units are being spammed those vehicles become useless very fast as well.
Power income must be higher and req base income should be lower. The game should feel more tactical and less spammy. Im not saying that you dont need skill, you still need to be good at the game, win fights and be good at macro but the whole spam is really getting boring and vehicles are not a fast choice to go for sadly unluke it was in dow1 were you could fast tech with chaos in 5 minutes to t3.
I think power income is fine, just the 330 base requisition is way to high tbh.
I'd prefere something like +180 base req from the start and then slowly increases over time until it reaches 330 req after 10 minutes.
@S4ngetsu said:
Why do you think the game needs a rework ? It is fun as it is, just observermode, races and more players are missing.
I'm glad you like it. The players are missing because a lot of people didn't like it - a lot of people. We don't find it fun. We don't appreciate a lot of the new features. That's not to rain on your parade, but we'd rather see something different and we hope that the scale of dissatisfaction with the game will encourage Relic to make big changes. That might never happen, but observer mode isn't coming unless the player base increases dramatically, and the player base isn't going to increase dramatically under the current game design. That's an opinion of course, and we'll have to wait and see if I'm right.
Ok lets start with Doctrines - i think 90% of people in DoW3 agrees with a rework. Right ? Me too.
But what about Power Core ? I think in generall its a good mode. I doubt that more players would join the game just by making anihilation the dafault ranked mode...
@S4ngetsu said:
Ok lets start with Doctrines - i think 90% of people in DoW3 agrees with a rework. Right ? Me too.
But what about Power Core ? I think in generall its a good mode. I doubt that more players would join the game just by making anihilation the dafault ranked mode...
I don't. If Anni would be better polished and aligned with current gameplay, it might be big fat carrot for lots of us. I personally can't stand PC for 1v1, in teams it feels ok though, but I don't play teams...
@Martin said: @REUBENUK It is again just a matter of why, we have the problem that we need a cost to help balance doctrines, and req/power do that job just fine without introducing further new elements we don't know what will happen with. Maybe a xp system or elite points for doctrines system could be good, but I would like to see you give it some more thought and make a more detailed suggestion than that where you can say more about how you expect this new system to impact the game and what the pros and cons are if they are any.
If you wanted doctrines to cost requisition/power (normal economy) as they are now or as an upgrade available in buildings, the the economy/escalation phases would need to be tweaked quite a lot in order to avoid some serious issues as to how the game would end up being played (like a lack of being able to call for units when you need them due to upgrading stuff first or a lack of being able to unlock upgrades when you need them due countering your opponents).
I don't understand the problem you are talking about Reuben, how would giving doctrines cost prevent you from getting units/upgrades when you need them?
@S4ngetsu said:
But what about Power Core ? I think in generall its a good mode. I doubt that more players would join the game just by making anihilation the dafault ranked mode...
You're right, but that's not really the problem by itself. If you take me for example, my issues with the game go beyond PC. My issue is with what the gameplay and combat emphasizes - which is the elite units and active abilities. To me, the rhythm of the game feels more like I'm playing a MOBA what with the twitchy aiming/dodging/baiting of active abilities and your success or failure with many of your matches will revolve around that. Power Core is sort of insult-to-injury if you're not keen on the MOBA influences, because it's very much a MOBA game mode and it only serves to symbolize the complaint.
@Martin said:
I don't understand the problem you are talking about Reuben, how would giving doctrines cost prevent you from getting units/upgrades when you need them?
As it is now, if you want to compete in pvp you seldom have enough resources as it is (unless you count late game but by then why bother with upgrades?).
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Martin
I just need to be sure @katikof
you are aware my post was in regard to making doctrines cost elite points and not elite points in general?
Ekko_Tek
Necron Lord says hi!
ReubenUK
@Martin What about a command point system (similar to CoH 2) which allows you to activate doctrines with command points that are acquired via killing models for XP (the engine can do this and XP is sort of already a thing in DoW 3 so I don't think it would take a lot to implement this idea).
Katitof
CoH2 CPs are more akin to to EPs with timers as you'll always get certain amount of CP around certain time with rare stomp exceptions.
Martin
@REUBENUK It is again just a matter of why, we have the problem that we need a cost to help balance doctrines, and req/power do that job just fine without introducing further new elements we don't know what will happen with. Maybe a xp system or elite points for doctrines system could be good, but I would like to see you give it some more thought and make a more detailed suggestion than that where you can say more about how you expect this new system to impact the game and what the pros and cons are if they are any.
12ozMouse
Relic Had said the first patch Should improve the game. Everyone had believed him, but he lied. Now relic saying the febr patch should make the game better. Everyone believes again. The wheel of Samsara makes another turn.
Martin
Previous patches have improved the game I don't know what you are talking about.
Katitof
First patch improved the game.
So did second.
And third.
People who still aren't pleased are people who for whatever reason stick to the insane idea that whole game will be remade into a completely different format.
If you expect balance improvements and possibly new content or faction, these expectation will be met.
If you expect rework of basic systems and mechanics, you need to snort less warp dust.
12ozMouse
Good joke
Amoc
It also had wide open maps, ridiculous bottleneck maps and also sorts of other lol-worthy designs. The whole game was a lawlfest for MP.
At least for some of the maps I'd agree with that.
CoH is such a fundamentally different game that the comparison isn't warranted. With all of the cover and destructible environments, I'd hardly say we're looking at "lanes". Roads and bridges perhaps - but in CoH those are key features of map and game design that strongly emphasize effective use of deeper terrain mechanics.
I'm not defending DoW II - a lot of the comparisons are fair. A lot of them are also not, but DoW III is as much a departure from DoW II as DoW II was from DoW I. They're completely different games.
Thunderhost
Circlejerking is only fun for so long. Add something constructive skipper.
Amoc
If you expect the game to do anything but struggle without some sort of rework, the same goes to you :P
S4ngetsu
Why do you think the game needs a rework ? It is fun as it is, just observermode, races and more players are missing.
Spirit
Yeah i agree the game feels very scripted. Its like you must go and spam infantry otherwise you will be on the back foot. You cannot just decide to go very fast t2 and go for vehicles and try to win battles with them cause it will not work out. Only if you are really lucky and have a great power income you can manage to get a relatively fast vehicle out but as soon as av units are being spammed those vehicles become useless very fast as well.
Power income must be higher and req base income should be lower. The game should feel more tactical and less spammy. Im not saying that you dont need skill, you still need to be good at the game, win fights and be good at macro but the whole spam is really getting boring and vehicles are not a fast choice to go for sadly unluke it was in dow1 were you could fast tech with chaos in 5 minutes to t3.
S4ngetsu
I think power income is fine, just the 330 base requisition is way to high tbh.
I'd prefere something like +180 base req from the start and then slowly increases over time until it reaches 330 req after 10 minutes.
S4ngetsu
Actually im not sure, needs a lot of testing, relic should decide what to do by themselves and stop listening to us
Amoc
I'm glad you like it. The players are missing because a lot of people didn't like it - a lot of people. We don't find it fun. We don't appreciate a lot of the new features. That's not to rain on your parade, but we'd rather see something different and we hope that the scale of dissatisfaction with the game will encourage Relic to make big changes. That might never happen, but observer mode isn't coming unless the player base increases dramatically, and the player base isn't going to increase dramatically under the current game design. That's an opinion of course, and we'll have to wait and see if I'm right.
S4ngetsu
Ok lets start with Doctrines - i think 90% of people in DoW3 agrees with a rework. Right ? Me too.
But what about Power Core ? I think in generall its a good mode. I doubt that more players would join the game just by making anihilation the dafault ranked mode...
Stoner
I don't. If Anni would be better polished and aligned with current gameplay, it might be big fat carrot for lots of us. I personally can't stand PC for 1v1, in teams it feels ok though, but I don't play teams...
ReubenUK
If you wanted doctrines to cost requisition/power (normal economy) as they are now or as an upgrade available in buildings, the the economy/escalation phases would need to be tweaked quite a lot in order to avoid some serious issues as to how the game would end up being played (like a lack of being able to call for units when you need them due to upgrading stuff first or a lack of being able to unlock upgrades when you need them due countering your opponents).
Martin
I don't understand the problem you are talking about Reuben, how would giving doctrines cost prevent you from getting units/upgrades when you need them?
Amoc
You're right, but that's not really the problem by itself. If you take me for example, my issues with the game go beyond PC. My issue is with what the gameplay and combat emphasizes - which is the elite units and active abilities. To me, the rhythm of the game feels more like I'm playing a MOBA what with the twitchy aiming/dodging/baiting of active abilities and your success or failure with many of your matches will revolve around that. Power Core is sort of insult-to-injury if you're not keen on the MOBA influences, because it's very much a MOBA game mode and it only serves to symbolize the complaint.
ReubenUK
As it is now, if you want to compete in pvp you seldom have enough resources as it is (unless you count late game but by then why bother with upgrades?).