I fear tuning down active abilities will make the game too basic like dawn of war 1 in micro. I think that be a huge step back, it only worked in dawn of war 1 because the macro demanded much more attention so the micro became difficult because you had to juggle them both. Dawn of war 3 macro is just something you need to do now and then but when you do it is risky because of how much attention the micro requires.
I'm pretty happy with the micro for active abilities in DOW3. DOW1 didn't have many active abilities. DOW2 had way more with a hotkey system that was almost impossible to use. DOW3 has slightly less than DOW2 and only requires 3 keys to use them. Maybe I'm an outlier but I feel like Relic is in a good place with active abilities.
@vindicarex said:
Critically, DoW1 and DoW2 both had mechanics that could more or less absorb active abilities to reduce their immediate impact (such as killing everything).
DoW2 has Fall Back mechanic
DoW1 has on-field reinforcement
Both of these allow players to basically stay in the game and fight even if they make a mistake and cannot dodge an active ability.
There is not such parallel mechanic in DoW3 (save for the refund mechanic.... which if you need to make of use it, you are probably gonna lose since you're not defending your objectives with dead units).
As such, the gameplay in DoW3 should be slower to allow for players to micro units tactically without fear of losing everything in seconds.
Sure, I mean at the very least DoW 3 does compound the issue of the use of abilities compared to DoW 1/2 (due to what you say above) which could dissuade new players or non-competitive players away from the game.
@Katitof said:
Most people who rage and still haven't moved on have one single issue with the game:
Its not carbon copy of DOW1/DoW2 but an actual new game and that's why they rage so much.
You'll easily find these people by the ideas they present and will be able to ignore them.
Yeah, keep telling you that. It´s the same reasoning of critics why star wars 8 is not liked
LoL. Disney star wars is very bad. Atm. Could change but i dont have high hopes.
@vindicarex said:
Critically, DoW1 and DoW2 both had mechanics that could more or less absorb active abilities to reduce their immediate impact (such as killing everything).
DoW2 has Fall Back mechanic
DoW1 has on-field reinforcement
Both of these allow players to basically stay in the game and fight even if they make a mistake and cannot dodge an active ability.
There is not such parallel mechanic in DoW3 (save for the refund mechanic.... which if you need to make of use it, you are probably gonna lose since you're not defending your objectives with dead units).
As such, the gameplay in DoW3 should be slower to allow for players to micro units tactically without fear of losing everything in seconds.
Yeah making line units better and the lower level elites a bit less killy would definantly slow down the game a lil bit.
I think high level elites should still be pretty hard hitters though.
@TokyoDream said:
I'm glad you like the game. I do too. I just wish there was more of it.
The way I look at it, some of this negative feedback is Relic's fault. DOW3 launched with only one MP game mode and it had MOBA elements. That does give the impression that Relic is going all in on MOBA-like gameplay. I think DOW3 only had one mode because it was woefully rushed and unfinished but Relic can't come out and say that.
DoW3 had one game mode because the entire game is designed around it. I do think it would have been better if they had time to add some more "goofy" modes but for ranked play anything other than power core would have serious issues. People wanted annhilate really badly on DoW3 release but I never see anyone play it because it simply doesn't work well with DoW3's structure.
@TokyoDream said:
I'm glad you like the game. I do too. I just wish there was more of it.
The way I look at it, some of this negative feedback is Relic's fault. DOW3 launched with only one MP game mode and it had MOBA elements. That does give the impression that Relic is going all in on MOBA-like gameplay. I think DOW3 only had one mode because it was woefully rushed and unfinished but Relic can't come out and say that.
DoW3 had one game mode because the entire game is designed around it. I do think it would have been better if they had time to add some more "goofy" modes but for ranked play anything other than power core would have serious issues. People wanted annhilate really badly on DoW3 release but I never see anyone play it because it simply doesn't work well with DoW3's structure.
A lot of people assume that DOW3 was designed around PC mode. Launching with just that mode would certainly give people that impression but I'm not so sure. The campaign doesn't contain a trace of PC mode. I also happen to think the core gameplay works fine with annihilation mode and would work with other game modes. It's much more flexible than DOW2. I think launching with only PC mode is another symptom of this game being rushed. Relic would have to be crazy to think PC mode is all we could ever want.
@TokyoDream said:
A lot of people assume that DOW3 was designed around PC mode. Launching with just that mode would certainly give people that impression but I'm not so sure. The campaign doesn't contain a trace of PC mode. I also happen to think the core gameplay works fine with annihilation mode and would work with other game modes. It's much more flexible than DOW2. I think launching with only PC mode is another symptom of this game being rushed. Relic would have to be crazy to think PC mode is all we could ever want.
Relic figured Power Core would be received better than it was, so I don't think it's crazy that they focused on it. The early suite of maps, the frailty of line units, the overwhelming focus on elites and active abilities, escalation phases - all of these demonstrate the deep MOBA influences permeating the game. These are still felt when playing Annihilation so it was never going to be much of a solution to complaints about PC.
I've said it many times and I don't mean to upset people when I do, but I think the reason we've seen so little coming from Relic since October is because the changes that are probably needed are fundamental in nature, or they effect some many other parts of the game that a lot of things need to be changed alongside.
@TokyoDream said:
A lot of people assume that DOW3 was designed around PC mode. Launching with just that mode would certainly give people that impression but I'm not so sure. The campaign doesn't contain a trace of PC mode. I also happen to think the core gameplay works fine with annihilation mode and would work with other game modes. It's much more flexible than DOW2. I think launching with only PC mode is another symptom of this game being rushed. Relic would have to be crazy to think PC mode is all we could ever want.
Relic figured Power Core would be received better than it was, so I don't think it's crazy that they focused on it. The early suite of maps, the frailty of line units, the overwhelming focus on elites and active abilities, escalation phases - all of these demonstrate the deep MOBA influences permeating the game. These are still felt when playing Annihilation so it was never going to be much of a solution to complaints about PC.
I've said it many times and I don't mean to upset people when I do, but I think the reason we've seen so little coming from Relic since October is because the changes that are probably needed are fundamental in nature, or they effect some many other parts of the game that a lot of things need to be changed alongside.
I'm sure Relic did expect PC to be more popular. There's nothing so wrong with PC. It's a quirky MOBA-lite mode. It's not for me but I'm sure it has its fans. If we had more modes at launch, people who didn't like it could ignore it and play something else. I think Relic would like to have done that but compromises had to be made and this is what we got.
As for why we haven't seen much from Relic, I'm leaning toward AOE4 as the culprit. Relic doesn't seem like a studio that can work on 2 games at once. This could be the reason DOW3 was rushed in the first place. Whatever flexibility Relic has with SEGA (or lack of), I'm sure it's even less when they're doing contract work for Microsoft. Relic had to launch DOW3 before they could begin work on AOE4 and they weren't setting the timetable. This is all speculation, but it rings true to me.
@TokyoDream said:
I'm sure Relic did expect PC to be more popular. There's nothing so wrong with PC. It's a quirky MOBA-lite mode. It's not for me but I'm sure it has its fans.
My take on this isn't that PC is a MOBA-lite game mode, but rather most of the game plays like a MOBA-lite and PC came naturally from that design.
@TokyoDream said:
If we had more modes at launch, people who didn't like it could ignore it and play something else. I think Relic would like to have done that but compromises had to be made and this is what we got.
I'm just not sure how these modes would have worked. So much of the game seems to be on rails (especially the economy and the escalation phases) and modes like Annihilation don't work very well because lethality is so high that need to be babysat 24/7. On the strategic level, there's just way less going on than a normal Annihilation-based game like SC. Soooo much is dependent on your elites and just chaining together your abilities properly.
@TokyoDream said:
As for why we haven't seen much from Relic, I'm leaning toward AOE4 as the culprit. Relic doesn't seem like a studio that can work on 2 games at once. This could be the reason DOW3 was rushed in the first place.
I still don't think the "rush" argument explains much. From the game's overall design, it's clear that Power Core was the overwhelming focus and the intended MP map mode and they executed on that. Additional map modes would come from that but the game's luke-warm reception (being generous) has likely stymied a lot of future endeavors and pumped the breaks on the intended roadmap altogether. I don't doubt at all that AOE4 has drained a lot of the DoW manpower, but if the game had been more successful we'd likely have seen more news and activity.
@Amoc
I guess it's a matter of taste. In annihilation mode, DOW3 feels like a fast paced, aggressive RTS. Just the way I like it. I find abilities much easier to use than in DOW2, either because there are less of them or the interface is better, or both. Micro is in a good place for me. It's not perfect but than can keep this gameplay and apply it to other modes and I'd be fine with that.
If you think DOW3 launched with $60 worth of content, then I guess it doesn't seem rushed. A short campaign and one MP mode is certainly not what I expect from Relic.
I think any roadmap has been obliterated by the reception. It's ironic that if DOW3 had sold better, more work would probably have gone into support and it would be a more complete game now. Relic shouldn't expect people to invest in a game that launches in such a sorry state though. If Relic intends to turn things around, they've had plenty of time to think about it. February can't come soon enough.
@Nassir_Amit said:
I think, abilities should be a bit more specified.
If easily to get, then make it less impactful or take more time.
If hard to get and not often to use, make it the more hard hitting.
Agreed, that there is nothing to stay longer in an engagement. An retreat option would have been neat.
Again DoW 3 doesnt have a need for a retreat option
Also, why are we missing so many upgrades and squadleaders entirely?
We aint missing them. Upgrades that will be implimented need to be done,so in a smart way to not make units too powerful and others redundant. Thats why we got set roles.
@TokyoDream said:
I think any roadmap has been obliterated by the reception. It's ironic that if DOW3 had sold better, more work would probably have gone into support and it would be a more complete game now. Relic shouldn't expect people to invest in a game that launches in such a sorry state though. If Relic intends to turn things around, they've had plenty of time to think about it. February can't come soon enough.
I don't think it released in a sorry state though. It's clear from the campaign that the primary focus was on MP, and most successful RTS games rely primarily on a single game mode. As far as PC mode goes, I think they did a good job with it. This was probably the most polished release Relic's ever had. It just seems the game they delivered wasn't something people were really interested in.
@TokyoDream said:
I think any roadmap has been obliterated by the reception. It's ironic that if DOW3 had sold better, more work would probably have gone into support and it would be a more complete game now. Relic shouldn't expect people to invest in a game that launches in such a sorry state though. If Relic intends to turn things around, they've had plenty of time to think about it. February can't come soon enough.
I don't think it released in a sorry state though. It's clear from the campaign that the primary focus was on MP, and most successful RTS games rely primarily on a single game mode. As far as PC mode goes, I think they did a good job with it. This was probably the most polished release Relic's ever had. It just seems the game they delivered wasn't something people were really interested in.
I don't really know how to measure polished vs. unpolished. I mean game had handful of bugs, most of which got fixed by now (probably). Some caused errors so in certain campaign missions player could not progress, that's identified as"gamebreaking" bug, performance issues, etc. Should we include brutal lack of basic features which we're still missing? Not even to mention overall content. PC mode wasn't rainbows and sunshine as well, damage/hp values of objectives got tweaked few times and etc. That's gonna be pretty steep argument about the product quality on release tbh...
@Stoner said:
I don't really know how to measure polished vs. unpolished. I mean game had handful of bugs, most of which got fixed by now (probably). Some caused errors so in certain campaign missions player could not progress, that's identified as"gamebreaking" bug, performance issues, etc. Should we include brutal lack of basic features which we're still missing? Not even to mention overall content. PC mode wasn't rainbows and sunshine as well, damage/hp values of objectives got tweaked few times and etc. That's gonna be pretty steep argument about the product quality on release tbh...
The only feature that seemed to be lacking/problematic was the UI. Not being able to map hotkeys was silly.
The lack of observer mode has been grossly exaggerated as a problem. This would be an easy implementation if there was a healthy player base to build it for, but there never was so it was never needed. The "lack" of races is also a poor argument given how few RTS games manage to release more than 3 balanced races. 3 races was perfectly fine for the initial release and if the game had been successful, we'd undoubtedly get more.
For overall content I really don't think it was lacking, not compared to other games. I think they absolutely botched the SP campaign, but I really don't understand where the argument is coming from for lack of content. I mean everyone always wants more, but this game didn't release with an unusually low amount of content. Since then, updates an additional content have been scarce, but the initial offering wasn't as light as folks are saying it was, at least not in the RTS landscape.
If you don't like power core mode and/or you mostly play single-player then yeah, I can understand there's not a lot for you there. The game was obviously designed with an overwhelming emphasis on MP and I suppose you can question that decision.
Oh no doubt there are a lot of questionable design decisions. The whole MOBA narrative since release, IMO, has been 100% deserved and most of the complaints around that I completely agree with. You know I also agree with you on doctrines as well, at least in combination with elites.
I think the argument I'm trying to make here is that Relic did a good job executing on a lousy vision.
Since I got a new GPU recently, I'm into this game again. The previous one could only go around cinematic 25fps on 4k, this one is easy 50. DoW3 is one of those games where I'm even at 3200x1800 seeing its really not the optimal resolution of my screen. Its so smooth and pleasing to look at now.
Sure, its mostly skirmishes, sad to see that the population is really low nowadays... I still don't like all the decisions and missing features, but I can mostly live with it. I guess it all depends from the February content drop. Since the first year of the release is approaching, and we can already slowly expect the expansion announcement if nothing, I guess a lot depends from February. If in all this time of silence, and so long after the release, they didn't even got ready to update the camera and assets to make the rotation to work, I'm gonna start slowly to lose hope that we'll see any major rehauls in the expansion.
Well, for me what I want most in RTS, when it comes to updates and expansion is of course more races/factions, but I don't think that it can appear in February. Still new races in Dow3 would be so sweet for me thanks to doctrines, Elites and faction mechanics- yes I know that not everyone likes them all, but for me it spiced the current races very nicely.
Still, I'm not sure if there will be new race, but I would like to ask Relic what they think about new races now. I wish if they could reply to me, even if it is a bad news. But still..........
If there's an expansion in the making, ofc they are going to introduce at least one new faction, like always. Not to mention they have already teased Necrons.
@Renner said:
If there's an expansion in the making, ofc they are going to introduce at least one new faction, like always. Not to mention they have already teased Necrons.
Indeed. For me even one new race will be enough for this game, but has to be a new race. Unless Relic would like to add more.
Anyways I think that, if not AoE4's announcement, or at least if Relic wasn't chosen to this order for Microsoft, then Dow3 might have some more chances for a expansion. But oh well........
If @r_benb or someone from Relic could said something to swept my doubts and quench my thirst........
I guess a lot depends from February. If in all this time of silence, and so long after the release, they didn't even got ready to update the camera and assets to make the rotation to work, I'm gonna start slowly to lose hope that we'll see any major rehauls in the expansion.
I feel the same way. I need an announcement of an expansion or enough content to show that Relic is still putting a lot of work into DOW3.
I don't know if Relic has the manpower to turn DOW3 around while they're deep in development of AOE4. It's going to take more than an new race and a campaign to change popular opinion. It might be best if they hold off on an expansion until after AOE4. I'd rather wait for them to make something amazing. Just giving us more DOW3 would keep it alive but still on life support. I want to see DOW3 come back with a vengeance.
About lousy, as Amoc called, vision for Dow3, I don't bother if it is lousy or not, I think if Relic had a own vision, then I at least apprecciate that they wanted to experiment, even if I see, that it didn't worked. But still I find current races much spicer thanks to Elites, Doctrines and Faction Mechanics, though I somehow agree that releasing game with just one MOBA-like mode hurted the image, though personally I have nothing against that mode. But still I'm glad that they released Annihilation mode so I could enjoy the game. But fact, things could be better, yet still, I'm looking forward what February will bring to Dow3, even if Relic will be focused now on AoE4. But always I can play skirmish if playercount is low anyways.
Agreed about toning down the abilities, even though they are already weaker then they were with the non-hero unit hp increase. The next step imo should be to also decrease\remove the refunds in addition to nerfing the active abilities some more. Hopefully this could make buildorders more important and add more strategy to the game.
Maybe replacing the escalation phases with your regular RTS economy could also help with that (making the engagmenets and economy decisions made in early game matter much more for the mid game, and late etc).
Sorft of like: increasing the importance of strategy should decrease the importance of tactics (e.g. active abilities).
About why dow3 got so much hate on release: lets also not forget that not only the balance patch made after beta didn't change much of anything but the next patch was made a month or so after release(and also didn't fix all the issues).
I like micro interive gameplay. Macro is boring, I mean look at SC2, there's generally little strategy involved, you just respond with predetermined buld order/unit composition, the whole game is on rails, you just switch between different ones.
I just wish a single slip didn't cost you or your opponent a game in DoW3. WC3 is a good example of good micro gameplay IMO, it's about how consistent your micro is as opposed to twitchy nature of DoW3 and SC2.
Menu
Comments
TokyoDream
@Martin said:
I'm pretty happy with the micro for active abilities in DOW3. DOW1 didn't have many active abilities. DOW2 had way more with a hotkey system that was almost impossible to use. DOW3 has slightly less than DOW2 and only requires 3 keys to use them. Maybe I'm an outlier but I feel like Relic is in a good place with active abilities.
ReubenUK
Sure, I mean at the very least DoW 3 does compound the issue of the use of abilities compared to DoW 1/2 (due to what you say above) which could dissuade new players or non-competitive players away from the game.
CANNED_F3TUS
LoL. Disney star wars is very bad. Atm. Could change but i dont have high hopes.
CANNED_F3TUS
Yeah making line units better and the lower level elites a bit less killy would definantly slow down the game a lil bit.
I think high level elites should still be pretty hard hitters though.
Dullahan
DoW3 had one game mode because the entire game is designed around it. I do think it would have been better if they had time to add some more "goofy" modes but for ranked play anything other than power core would have serious issues. People wanted annhilate really badly on DoW3 release but I never see anyone play it because it simply doesn't work well with DoW3's structure.
TokyoDream
A lot of people assume that DOW3 was designed around PC mode. Launching with just that mode would certainly give people that impression but I'm not so sure. The campaign doesn't contain a trace of PC mode. I also happen to think the core gameplay works fine with annihilation mode and would work with other game modes. It's much more flexible than DOW2. I think launching with only PC mode is another symptom of this game being rushed. Relic would have to be crazy to think PC mode is all we could ever want.
Amoc
Relic figured Power Core would be received better than it was, so I don't think it's crazy that they focused on it. The early suite of maps, the frailty of line units, the overwhelming focus on elites and active abilities, escalation phases - all of these demonstrate the deep MOBA influences permeating the game. These are still felt when playing Annihilation so it was never going to be much of a solution to complaints about PC.
I've said it many times and I don't mean to upset people when I do, but I think the reason we've seen so little coming from Relic since October is because the changes that are probably needed are fundamental in nature, or they effect some many other parts of the game that a lot of things need to be changed alongside.
TokyoDream
I'm sure Relic did expect PC to be more popular. There's nothing so wrong with PC. It's a quirky MOBA-lite mode. It's not for me but I'm sure it has its fans. If we had more modes at launch, people who didn't like it could ignore it and play something else. I think Relic would like to have done that but compromises had to be made and this is what we got.
As for why we haven't seen much from Relic, I'm leaning toward AOE4 as the culprit. Relic doesn't seem like a studio that can work on 2 games at once. This could be the reason DOW3 was rushed in the first place. Whatever flexibility Relic has with SEGA (or lack of), I'm sure it's even less when they're doing contract work for Microsoft. Relic had to launch DOW3 before they could begin work on AOE4 and they weren't setting the timetable. This is all speculation, but it rings true to me.
Amoc
My take on this isn't that PC is a MOBA-lite game mode, but rather most of the game plays like a MOBA-lite and PC came naturally from that design.
I'm just not sure how these modes would have worked. So much of the game seems to be on rails (especially the economy and the escalation phases) and modes like Annihilation don't work very well because lethality is so high that need to be babysat 24/7. On the strategic level, there's just way less going on than a normal Annihilation-based game like SC. Soooo much is dependent on your elites and just chaining together your abilities properly.
I still don't think the "rush" argument explains much. From the game's overall design, it's clear that Power Core was the overwhelming focus and the intended MP map mode and they executed on that. Additional map modes would come from that but the game's luke-warm reception (being generous) has likely stymied a lot of future endeavors and pumped the breaks on the intended roadmap altogether. I don't doubt at all that AOE4 has drained a lot of the DoW manpower, but if the game had been more successful we'd likely have seen more news and activity.
TokyoDream
@Amoc
I guess it's a matter of taste. In annihilation mode, DOW3 feels like a fast paced, aggressive RTS. Just the way I like it. I find abilities much easier to use than in DOW2, either because there are less of them or the interface is better, or both. Micro is in a good place for me. It's not perfect but than can keep this gameplay and apply it to other modes and I'd be fine with that.
If you think DOW3 launched with $60 worth of content, then I guess it doesn't seem rushed. A short campaign and one MP mode is certainly not what I expect from Relic.
I think any roadmap has been obliterated by the reception. It's ironic that if DOW3 had sold better, more work would probably have gone into support and it would be a more complete game now. Relic shouldn't expect people to invest in a game that launches in such a sorry state though. If Relic intends to turn things around, they've had plenty of time to think about it. February can't come soon enough.
CANNED_F3TUS
Again DoW 3 doesnt have a need for a retreat option
We aint missing them. Upgrades that will be implimented need to be done,so in a smart way to not make units too powerful and others redundant. Thats why we got set roles.
Amoc
I don't think it released in a sorry state though. It's clear from the campaign that the primary focus was on MP, and most successful RTS games rely primarily on a single game mode. As far as PC mode goes, I think they did a good job with it. This was probably the most polished release Relic's ever had. It just seems the game they delivered wasn't something people were really interested in.
Stoner
I don't really know how to measure polished vs. unpolished. I mean game had handful of bugs, most of which got fixed by now (probably). Some caused errors so in certain campaign missions player could not progress, that's identified as"gamebreaking" bug, performance issues, etc. Should we include brutal lack of basic features which we're still missing? Not even to mention overall content. PC mode wasn't rainbows and sunshine as well, damage/hp values of objectives got tweaked few times and etc. That's gonna be pretty steep argument about the product quality on release tbh...
Amoc
The only feature that seemed to be lacking/problematic was the UI. Not being able to map hotkeys was silly.
The lack of observer mode has been grossly exaggerated as a problem. This would be an easy implementation if there was a healthy player base to build it for, but there never was so it was never needed. The "lack" of races is also a poor argument given how few RTS games manage to release more than 3 balanced races. 3 races was perfectly fine for the initial release and if the game had been successful, we'd undoubtedly get more.
For overall content I really don't think it was lacking, not compared to other games. I think they absolutely botched the SP campaign, but I really don't understand where the argument is coming from for lack of content. I mean everyone always wants more, but this game didn't release with an unusually low amount of content. Since then, updates an additional content have been scarce, but the initial offering wasn't as light as folks are saying it was, at least not in the RTS landscape.
If you don't like power core mode and/or you mostly play single-player then yeah, I can understand there's not a lot for you there. The game was obviously designed with an overwhelming emphasis on MP and I suppose you can question that decision.
Amoc
Oh no doubt there are a lot of questionable design decisions. The whole MOBA narrative since release, IMO, has been 100% deserved and most of the complaints around that I completely agree with. You know I also agree with you on doctrines as well, at least in combination with elites.
I think the argument I'm trying to make here is that Relic did a good job executing on a lousy vision.
Renner
Since I got a new GPU recently, I'm into this game again. The previous one could only go around cinematic 25fps on 4k, this one is easy 50. DoW3 is one of those games where I'm even at 3200x1800 seeing its really not the optimal resolution of my screen. Its so smooth and pleasing to look at now.
Sure, its mostly skirmishes, sad to see that the population is really low nowadays... I still don't like all the decisions and missing features, but I can mostly live with it. I guess it all depends from the February content drop. Since the first year of the release is approaching, and we can already slowly expect the expansion announcement if nothing, I guess a lot depends from February. If in all this time of silence, and so long after the release, they didn't even got ready to update the camera and assets to make the rotation to work, I'm gonna start slowly to lose hope that we'll see any major rehauls in the expansion.
Draconix
Well, for me what I want most in RTS, when it comes to updates and expansion is of course more races/factions, but I don't think that it can appear in February. Still new races in Dow3 would be so sweet for me thanks to doctrines, Elites and faction mechanics- yes I know that not everyone likes them all, but for me it spiced the current races very nicely.
Still, I'm not sure if there will be new race, but I would like to ask Relic what they think about new races now. I wish if they could reply to me, even if it is a bad news. But still..........
Renner
If there's an expansion in the making, ofc they are going to introduce at least one new faction, like always. Not to mention they have already teased Necrons.
Draconix
Indeed. For me even one new race will be enough for this game, but has to be a new race. Unless Relic would like to add more.
Anyways I think that, if not AoE4's announcement, or at least if Relic wasn't chosen to this order for Microsoft, then Dow3 might have some more chances for a expansion. But oh well........
If @r_benb or someone from Relic could said something to swept my doubts and quench my thirst........
TokyoDream
I feel the same way. I need an announcement of an expansion or enough content to show that Relic is still putting a lot of work into DOW3.
I don't know if Relic has the manpower to turn DOW3 around while they're deep in development of AOE4. It's going to take more than an new race and a campaign to change popular opinion. It might be best if they hold off on an expansion until after AOE4. I'd rather wait for them to make something amazing. Just giving us more DOW3 would keep it alive but still on life support. I want to see DOW3 come back with a vengeance.
Draconix
About lousy, as Amoc called, vision for Dow3, I don't bother if it is lousy or not, I think if Relic had a own vision, then I at least apprecciate that they wanted to experiment, even if I see, that it didn't worked. But still I find current races much spicer thanks to Elites, Doctrines and Faction Mechanics, though I somehow agree that releasing game with just one MOBA-like mode hurted the image, though personally I have nothing against that mode. But still I'm glad that they released Annihilation mode so I could enjoy the game. But fact, things could be better, yet still, I'm looking forward what February will bring to Dow3, even if Relic will be focused now on AoE4. But always I can play skirmish if playercount is low anyways.
Bersercker
Agreed about toning down the abilities, even though they are already weaker then they were with the non-hero unit hp increase. The next step imo should be to also decrease\remove the refunds in addition to nerfing the active abilities some more. Hopefully this could make buildorders more important and add more strategy to the game.
Maybe replacing the escalation phases with your regular RTS economy could also help with that (making the engagmenets and economy decisions made in early game matter much more for the mid game, and late etc).
Sorft of like: increasing the importance of strategy should decrease the importance of tactics (e.g. active abilities).
About why dow3 got so much hate on release: lets also not forget that not only the balance patch made after beta didn't change much of anything but the next patch was made a month or so after release(and also didn't fix all the issues).
Achernar
I like micro interive gameplay. Macro is boring, I mean look at SC2, there's generally little strategy involved, you just respond with predetermined buld order/unit composition, the whole game is on rails, you just switch between different ones.
I just wish a single slip didn't cost you or your opponent a game in DoW3. WC3 is a good example of good micro gameplay IMO, it's about how consistent your micro is as opposed to twitchy nature of DoW3 and SC2.