Eldar Fire Prism

vindicarex · January 2018

Seems like it should cost 375 instead of 325 power

Since it is basically an artillery piece with high damage, it more than warrants that cost imo

SM/Ork tanks should be adjusted too...(SM Preds are not good and Big Trakks spammed can be quite a nightmare to fight since they can murder everything with AoE arty fire).

Basically, units with long range and high damage need to be nerfed in some way to prevent them from being too easily critical mass'd and just roflstomp any unit comp they see

LikeIce · January 2018

Sorry @vindicarex but I don't aggree on this.
For me most of the time FP not even worth 325 power. Too late game unit with high power cost in 1v1.
Or am I doing something wrong here?

Katitof · January 2018

How about this:

Other T3 units don't live up to their cost.

Darkstirling · January 2018

375 power is too much considering that these things get basically two shotted by a melta landspeeder

vindicarex · January 2018

@Darkstirling said:
375 power is too much considering that these things get basically two shotted by a melta landspeeder

But a metla landspeeder is also basically 2-shotted by a tankbusta Kappa

Darkstirling · January 2018

I guess, but the melta landspeeder can outrun tankbustas at least, no way is the fireprism escaping the landspeeder, especially if they have that annoying "my land speeders fly around the map" doctrine

I think a good solution to spammed artillery would be to dramatically increase the pop cap om artillery units, that way if you spam them, your actual army will be significantly smaller or non existent

vindicarex · January 2018

Fire Prisms will beat landspeeder every time if it spots it imo - the range on it is quite good. The MU is very dependent on current army comp and player's map awareness.

Dullahan · January 2018

Fire Prism is fine. Very slow ROF and it's awful vs infantry. It also takes bonus damage from Lascannons, tankbustas and shadow spectres because it's a skimmer.

MaxwellsDaemon · January 2018

@vindicarex said:

@Darkstirling said:
375 power is too much considering that these things get basically two shotted by a melta landspeeder

But a metla landspeeder is also basically 2-shotted by a tankbusta Kappa

But given that, in a vacuum 2 land speeders will chase down and kill a fire prism where as tank bustas have to hope the land speeders is a dopy sh!t and just sits there taking it...I'm not sure the comparison holds up.

MaxwellsDaemon · January 2018

@Darkstirling apologies I basically repeated your point.

vindicarex · January 2018

Talking about balance"in a vaccuum" is never really a good idea as it doesn't capture what is actually interacting in the game.

孙子兵法 · January 2018

@Dullahan said:
Fire Prism is fine. Very slow ROF and it's awful vs infantry. It also takes bonus damage from Lascannons, tankbustas and shadow spectres because it's a skimmer.

What? You are saying fire prism is awful vs infantry.

MaxwellsDaemon · January 2018

@vindicarex said:
Talking about balance"in a vaccuum" is never really a good idea as it doesn't capture what is actually interacting in the game.

I agree but it's the kind of thinking that is present in statements like...

@vindicarex said:

But a metla landspeeder is also basically 2-shotted by a tankbusta Kappa

The comparison you make seems awkward because it selectively describes some unit interactions, while ignoring or at least not acknowledging the wider picture.

Your post just lacks the explicit acknowledgement the interaction you state is essentially 'in a vaccuum.'

vindicarex · January 2018

@MaxwellsDaemon said:

@vindicarex said:
Talking about balance"in a vaccuum" is never really a good idea as it doesn't capture what is actually interacting in the game.

I agree but it's the kind of thinking that is present in statements like...

@vindicarex said:

But a metla landspeeder is also basically 2-shotted by a tankbusta Kappa

The comparison you make seems awkward because it selectively describes some unit interactions, while ignoring or at least not acknowledging the wider picture.

Your post just lacks the explicit acknowledgement the interaction you state is essentially 'in a vaccuum.'

Only made that statement because this was made first:

@Darkstirling said:
375 power is too much considering that these things get basically two shotted by a melta landspeeder

So, it's to show that you can play that game forever - "well, landspeeders counter FP - but Spectre counter speeders - but CC counters spectres - but dodging counters CC" - etc. etc.

My statement about the landspeeders was to point that out - basically "he started it"

AngelofDeth · January 2018

@vindicarex said:
Seems like it should cost 375 instead of 325 power

Since it is basically an artillery piece with high damage, it more than warrants that cost imo

SM/Ork tanks should be adjusted too...(SM Preds are not good and Big Trakks spammed can be quite a nightmare to fight since they can murder everything with AoE arty fire).

Basically, units with long range and high damage need to be nerfed in some way to prevent them from being too easily critical mass'd and just roflstomp any unit comp they see

I'm not sure about this because it's very hard to get 1 prism and even harder to take care of them but considering you're highly experienced player than me, who are me to doubt you. I know of it's power once you get 2 - 3 of them but it's very difficult to get and I'm pretty sure pro players know how to counter them easily, especially dreads drop pod right into them.

Dullahan · January 2018

@孙子兵法 said:

@Dullahan said:
Fire Prism is fine. Very slow ROF and it's awful vs infantry. It also takes bonus damage from Lascannons, tankbustas and shadow spectres because it's a skimmer.

What? You are saying fire prism is awful vs infantry.

It is, provided they don't get hit by the Aoe splash.

Stoner · January 2018

Well, since dodging drop pods is way easier than dodging well placed FP shot for slow SM infantry, which gets completely gibbed by ~3 of them...

Katitof · January 2018

@Stoner said:
Well, since dodging drop pods is way easier than dodging well placed FP shot for slow SM infantry, which gets completely gibbed by ~3 of them...

I suggest investing in HP upgrades and some actual armor of your own, there comes a time in the game, where blobbing 10 tacticals stops being beneficial.

vindicarex · January 2018

@AngelofDeth said:

@vindicarex said:
Seems like it should cost 375 instead of 325 power

Since it is basically an artillery piece with high damage, it more than warrants that cost imo

SM/Ork tanks should be adjusted too...(SM Preds are not good and Big Trakks spammed can be quite a nightmare to fight since they can murder everything with AoE arty fire).

Basically, units with long range and high damage need to be nerfed in some way to prevent them from being too easily critical mass'd and just roflstomp any unit comp they see

I'm not sure about this because it's very hard to get 1 prism and even harder to take care of them but considering you're highly experienced player than me, who are me to doubt you. I know of it's power once you get 2 - 3 of them but it's very difficult to get and I'm pretty sure pro players know how to counter them easily, especially dreads drop pod right into them.

Problem is Pro players also know how to keep them alive. Seems like Robinology and the Korean Community agree with me on the OP potential of Fire Prism to become game-enders very quickly.

Again, compare FP to Predator - I'd say FP is clearly the better vehicle.

Achernar · February 2018

I wouldn't hold korean players as the ultimate authority. Relic has access to data we don't, like win rate based on unit used. Their opinion is important when you try to interpret said data but that's where it ends.

On paper, Fire Prism has:

lowest range of all artillery pieces
low fire rate
as a result low dps (counter with HP bags with health upgrades)
minimum range (counter with melee, Dreads and AM with power swords come to mind)
1k HP AND skimmer tag so they will melt under tankbustas, lascannon devs and shadow spectres fire
they also cost tons of power so counter with economy harass, destroying expensive sky portal is a good idea too.

AngelofDeth · February 2018

@vindicarex said:

@AngelofDeth said:

@vindicarex said:
Seems like it should cost 375 instead of 325 power

Since it is basically an artillery piece with high damage, it more than warrants that cost imo

SM/Ork tanks should be adjusted too...(SM Preds are not good and Big Trakks spammed can be quite a nightmare to fight since they can murder everything with AoE arty fire).

Basically, units with long range and high damage need to be nerfed in some way to prevent them from being too easily critical mass'd and just roflstomp any unit comp they see

I'm not sure about this because it's very hard to get 1 prism and even harder to take care of them but considering you're highly experienced player than me, who are me to doubt you. I know of it's power once you get 2 - 3 of them but it's very difficult to get and I'm pretty sure pro players know how to counter them easily, especially dreads drop pod right into them.

Problem is Pro players also know how to keep them alive. Seems like Robinology and the Korean Community agree with me on the OP potential of Fire Prism to become game-enders very quickly.

Again, compare FP to Predator - I'd say FP is clearly the better vehicle.

I quite agree on that and yeah FP is a potential threat on late game + with crippling blast could destroy titans and other elites in no time but still, I don't think they need further nerf as they were hard to get them out as soon as possible, plus I think you can spam FP only in 3v3 or 2v2, but not usually in 1v1 (I played less on 1v1) because of their very high power cost. I still think getting warp spider for Prism isn't worth that much, I prefer Kyre for crowd control.

Eldar Fire Prism

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