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How to solve ranger spam
3 years ago
LordHoki
Yes, everyone know ranger spam is a big problem. However, sniper has always been a problem in Relict game (Except for DOW2 which make ranger kind of useless). And instead of nerf them to the ground, bellow are some of my idea to make ranger still viable but not so OP.
In my opinion, ranger role should be:
- Scout from save position
- poking static player and make them move
- counter to slow setup team and heavy weapon team
My idea:
- Make ranger deal better damage against static target but worse against fast moving target. Because heavy weapon team need to setup time, they will be excellent target. Also, if the other stay static and not moving, they will be punish as well. However, this mean ranger can not stop a pushing army that is moving, as their damage is worse.
- Ranger scout ability should halt the ranger in place. This will make them more vulnerable when using this ability.
- Multiple ranger cause less damage against single target for short amount of time. Maybe if a squad get shot by a ranger they get a very brief buff (Call it sniper awareness or anything) and take less damage form sub-sequence shot. This will make focus fire on single squad harder, however, good player can still micro multiple ranger to attack on multiple target to maximize damage.
I know that many of my idea are hard to implement in the game. But I think this would keep the ranger and sniper effectiveness yet constraint them to specific situation and usages.
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Comments
salvasc
In my Dawn of War III Revolution mod, they do more damage, they are more expensive, they shoot slower and they are limited to three squads.
I have tried to limit certain units that are likely to be abused as snipers, rangers and WirlWind.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1243894413
Martin
Limits are lame, I like OP idea better. It makes sense also that a moving target is harder to hit. Just need to be careful when implementing this; when something is OP it is easy to get carried away and overnerf it.
I am not sure relic would be interested in a solution like this though, because it requires introducing a new system further complicating their game, and I think relic wants to keep things simple and easy to manage, example why they reduce the amount of armor/damage types. They will probably look for another solution first, but if they cannot find one OP idea sounds really good.
I like the idea with halting the squad when using ranger beacon as well.
I don't like the idea with adding that buff when squad gets attacked by multiple squads, seems too complicated and I think other solutions should be enough to nerf rangers.
There are other ways you could nerf them also, like tweaking their movement speed ,setup time ,damage, cost and rate of fire.
Dullahan
Having played a bit more versus rangers, I'm not having a ton of trouble with them anymore. They're made of glass and you can murder them with the right tools.
Orks in particular have a really easy time versus Rangers thanks to the War Trukk and many of their elites being excellent versus them, like Gorgutz or Weirdboy.
CANNED_F3TUS
Or we can make snipers function similiarly to liberator in SC 2.
Make them work kind of as a area denial unit but make them crap in dealing with units that are mobile.
I just think what is holding anipers back is how they are implimented...
Darkstirling
I have an idea that would nerf rangers, but also allow them to plug a massive gap that currently exists within the Eldar toolset - dealing with weapons teams in cover, and having a cheap scout unit
So make rangers cheaper, and by default they cannot shoot their guns. Instead, they start with a redesigned sensor beacon ability. This ability lets them place a beacon that gives them permanent vision of an area, until the enemy destroys the sensor beacon, (units would not auto target it, like old squigs), but that would emit a pulsing light. Also, they can only deploy the ability right beside themselves.
The sensor beacon upgrade would be renamed "ranger wargear"
They still wouldnt be able to shoot their guns normally, but they would unlock the assassinate ability, which would basically be what vigor is now, except that it would pierce cover. However, after moving or killing their target, the ability would go on a 1 minute cooldown.
S4ngetsu
You have to be very lucky or vs a bad player to even catch rangers with a weirdboy - truck/anything combination and if he teleports into a ranger mass he get's 1 or 2 shot and his scrap blast only removes the ranger shield.
Im not sure how op rangers can be vs Orks because im using reaper 99% of time .... but rangers are broken even vs orks if they are not using trucks.
Im sure that if you decide not to use trucks with stormboys command and truck taunt/shield doctrine you can't win against ranger mass, simply because they just teleport away or outmicro you.
stormboys / Gorgutz + trucks (with doctrines) + waagh seems the only effective counter against them.
Gorb
Moved to Balance (with a redirect).
Katitof
@LordHoki you do realize it will make rangers useful exclusively against a single unit in the whole game, right?
LordHoki
Yes, as I said it will limit ranger for specific situation. Against setup team or static player in defensive position. Or a much needed scouting tool for Eldar.
In my opinion, ranger or sniper should not be a main part an army. They are the tool to support your army against opponent who sit back, lay defense and wait.
In late game, they can be use as spotter and snipe down high value target like Lascannon Devastator, Shadow Spectre or Tankbusta
Katitof
No other unit is good exclusively against a single unit and you think its idea to make one so only because your personal skill and understanding of the game are too low to actually counter the situation you were put in?
LordHoki
What make you think that my change would make ranger only good exclusively against a single unit? Sorry how long have you played this game cause I think you don't know much of what you are saying.
My change is to make sniper and ranger good against static player, in defensive position. And prevent them to became a good in all situation unit. Sniper should not stop the hold army form advance. They are support unit isn't it?
I myself do not have much difficulty against ranger cause most of the time people who are abusing this strategy do not know what they are doing and make mistake easily. But I assure you, against a good player there are nothing you can do to stop ranger spam with double doctrine. Even fast tech to falcon can not help you.
YbuBaKa
Rangers/snipers are not the most important units when we speak about the game balance. There are lots of possibilities to kill them just in a few seconds, but all these possibilites are locked before tier 2. In competitive multiplayer, that means "a ranger player" can dominate on the map and gain insane map control with impunity. The strongest point of rangers/snipers on tier 1 is their ability to destroy Listening Posts from range. Buildings need a special armor type, to be honest. Being "normal" makes them too vulnerable to sniper rifles. But adding a new armor type is a too complicated decision.
Ranger spam could be fixed much easier, if we will take matchups between high-skilled players. Just add a 0,5 second teardown for rangers and snipers. That is enough for skilled player to stun and kill them, or strike through them with quickstrike.