@r_benb said:
That's not an unfair question. It's a bit trickier to answer but that's okay. The root of the disconnect that we've focused on is iteration without player feedback. One of the biggest risks in making games is that you don’t fully see how a title will really play and feel until you’ve hit a point where it’s difficult to switch gears. From where we're sitting, bringing that early and ongoing player validation into our process is a big priority so well-intentioned decisions don't go long without feedback.
That's a really good answer and I'm encouraged by that response and perspective from Relic. Thanks for responding. I will look forward to playing more Relic games in the future.
I actually enjoyed the Campaign but that was through the lense of "I am playing this once and then playing multiplayer for the next 5 years year. It was piss easy on normal mode though, even hard mode only gave me trouble once or twice.
I'd just like to thank anybody at Relic who might be reading this for all the hard work they put into DOW3. I really enjoy the game and as far as I'm concerned I got my "value" tenfold with the amount of time I put into it. Honestly I'm appalled at the reaction the game received from some people in the community. I've had some truly great matches in this game and I'm sad that we won't be able to see what could have been. I'm still your fan Relic and I'm looking forward to what comes next. Hang in there
We tried a bunch of less obvious things to nudge these around for new players coming in after you. Things like difficulty tuning in the first three missions, UI changes to streamline multiplayer, suggested Vs. AI matches to warm people up to the competitive side of things, and even removing the skull system to encourage experimentation. That's what I mean when I say we shifted our focus to the foundation from content.
Don't lie to us and say that tweaking difficulty, recommending skirmish, and removing skulls is shifting "focus to the foundation." It's insulting enough that you're communicating more today for your AoE4 damage control than you ever did up to this point. In Beta, I never once saw a Relic developer post on the private forums to help or explain the game you dropped us into without a skirmish mode, let alone any tutorials or explanations. I never once saw a developer respond to feedback or start a back and forth about the design. There were a number of us in beta who loved what you were doing and started so many robust discussions. All the while, it was total silence from your team while even minor, non-gameplay recommendations were entirely ignored. Insisting that you're listening to feedback without ever engaging it is not merely unconvincing - the fact that you never acted on any of it completely blows away your credibility. Even if you weren't going to address the impossible demands of a total rework, you never sufficiently improved the low faction count or map selection from its paltry offerings. You never made an observer mode so the passionate fans who were putting their hard-earned money into private tournaments could watch live the matches they themselves had funded. A lot of content creators put tremendous time and energy, dozens and dozens of hours myself personally in getting my GameReplays guide up, to help a game the team itself never committed to in return. I don't want to downplay Annihilation, three Elites, and the handful of maps we did get but if that was truly the sum of your efforts to turn things around, then it really does speak volumes about your capacity and competency to support an online competitive title.
The campaign was bad and you're right to assume it hurt player retention. The missions were empty with lazy layout design and repetitive assets. Something was seriously wrong if that was the best you could do in a storied RTS series like this. It was always a giant smoke signal that, subjective preferences aside, you didn't have either the resources or the will to satisfy expectations.
This is my final post on these forums. As I've mentioned previously, I will never buy another Relic title again and will do everything I can to steer people away from your releases in the future.
I'll always remember Relic's games of old as some of the fondest times I've had gaming. I'm never one to jump on the bandwagon and always try to think for myself but I have to agree with a lot of whats said here. I thought at first it was commendable to appear in the forums trying to explain the situation but then it leaves a bad taste in the mouth when the excuses start to come up justifying your actions. If things weren't working out the way you wanted why wasn't anything said earlier? I think this whole situation could of been avoided with better communication.
thanks for all players and forum guys for supporting this game. sad relic didnt want to make things right. oh well.. hope oneday we will get wh40k rts we always dreamed.
its a mistake to abandon the game so early , as dullahan pointed out. and as spirit said, 250000 copies being sold is a good start. people who paid for a game are more willing to buy the expansions too: you already have a foot in the door. easiest most successful sales-trick and you dont take advantage of it?
...... just try to please people with the XP, put some effort in it, make some money again with DLC. why is SEGA too blind to see this?
In the end relic will suffer a lot more than SEGA will: relics losing credibility, peoples faith in the company, people gonna ++heresy redacted++ about other future projects and keep repeating what relic did with dow3. its a pity. I for one will not buy another Relic product, I love DOW so theres no chance for it anyway.
i dont believe in a bad foundation of the game - it has such an high potential. add more depth &options &race. skip SP, deliver MP-stuff make money with paid DLC. I would pay / buy everything related to dow3 but its too sad theres nothing to buy, hahahhahaah.
I ask myself is dow3 a failure because the gaming industry changed or did the gamers needs changed so hardxore? whats the real cause? that the profit was "too little" ? hell, if theres profit , its worth it already....... thats the sad Part when studios get bought by companies like SEGA or whoever.
abandoning such a well produced game is without any example - or I dont know better.
this move's Impact will hit hard. its not here yet.
@octovert said:
From one game dev to another - I get it. It's a huge bummer. I have no doubt that many at the studio wish they could continue development, but these are the realities of a high production value, niche game. Hopefully both the support and rage you're getting from the community re-affirms to the decision makers at the top that the Dawn of War community is a passionate and driven one, and one that can be profitably served in the future. I've enjoyed every installment of the Dawn of War series, and hope to see another one.
You guys truly made a beautiful game and captured the imagery of the 40k universe perfectly. This game was one of the best tactical games I've ever played that is full of nuanced micro-management in a fast-paced tempo. I logged almost 1,000 hours into your game - yes, you read that right - and I sincerely enjoyed every minute of it. It had some warts and growing pains, but I felt that each patch you guys made the game better. I am, of course, disappointed that your company will no longer support this game. But please know, from this ramshackled warboss, that I was a big fan of what you guys created.
Once upon a time .... Age of empires Online ... Once upon a time Command and Conquer 4 .... Once upon a time Grey Goo ... Once upon a time Dawn of War 3!!!! Hey, please remember how was an RTS is the past 10 years, and look to what you release!!! Listen to the core fans players, those who play for hours and hours, those who enjoy pvp too a lot. If you deserve them, they can't let you a second chance. RTS is not a candy crush game, it is a kind of game with a high expectation of quality.
You can't say, we hera you, and not changing all you have seen. Beta is for that. You can change laucnh market date to avoid a such matter. DoW3 has a unique potential and i still love this game, but seriously .... nothing for epsort, still no observatory mode, how hell could core gamers play or organize regular tournament and entertainning? This just a part of the matter, and as i say i still love this game anyway.
Here on AoE 4 .... no one of the actual aoe lovrers want a time line of ww1 and ww2 .... but it will be on it! think of that too.
ps : i would have never put time and money on this game if i was not convinced it was a good game. www.dawnofwar3france.com was born to support the game. and i will continue to support it.
Who knows, if it is like age of emipers online ... it reborns from ashes and stronger than before.
Who knows, if it is like age of emipers online ... it reborns from ashes and stronger than before.
They won't expand the game because player base is too low, increase player base and that might change. I know I'll still play. Now that no content will be added, modders have the motivation they needed to get serious. That could play a part.
Deserts of Kharak had an average pop of 70 for months, but because of the dedicated hardcore base BBI put out a balance+bug fix patch recently.
The players make the game. The worst part about this is the self-fulfilling prophecy of ded gaem>don't play the game>kill the game>ded gaem. Less QQ, more playing the game might have helped here (along with better Relic communication).
To a certain extent.. what was the point in making a game they were not going to do anything with...
They MUST have a race on an external hardrive somewhere... I refuse to believe that there is nothing... They just don't have the staff to support it for another year with other projects which to me is absolutely sickening.. I am actually devastated i waited since the fall of Soulstorm.. the majority of my 20's
@Artist said:
The players make the game. The worst part about this is the self-fulfilling prophecy of ded gaem>don't play the game>kill the game>ded gaem. Less QQ, more playing the game might have helped here (along with better Relic communication).
So true...
Less crap talking about how the game bad is, more playing and trying to get all new things into heart.
The community has to accept it did it's part in killing this game. Demanding various things of "past glory", parroting each other and not seeing all good new things in this game. And those are plenty to enjoy.
I'm feeling so sad about this outcome.
I am veteran player started from Homeworld and played every Relic game since. And there was no single Relic's game I haven't liked. Many where the best I have played. For me Relic is game developer No 1 and always will be.
So sad they had to endure THQ meltdown, which I am sure had it's impact on DOW 3 too, and now this. They didn't deserve it, and didn't deserve all hate from community members, who could move to other games having not found what they wanted in DOW3 instead of bashing it everywhere. Yea, Empathy is rare to come by these days.
For the DOW3 I see the only possibility to stay somehow alive - that is to let modders do what they can and give them the best support Relic could afford (perhaps later, but Relic should look for such opportunities in all seriousness). You should take a look at X-COM 2 - what fantastic content was created by dedicated players having proper tools and support. Maybe a miracle happens, more players would come with time, and Relic could afford some additional content.
On the end, I would like to Thank You, my beloved company, for all great (and so many greatest) moments in my gaming life and wish you all the luck in future!
This game looked like sh1t before release, and after the impressions were confirmed. There are many good ideas but the overall game is bad. That escalating economy is the worst aspect of the game. I hope the franchise will be sold to a more competent developer. You had all the cards to make a great RTS, simply picking the most loved features of the previous DOWs and CoHs, so your fail is no justifiable. You should go back to plow fields for your incompetence
Disappointment, anger, sadness and other feelings that came to mind after reading the "good" news for Dawn of War 3. I'm waiting months for the first teaser of the expansion, but instead I learn that the games series I've played for 14 years is declared dead. With this ridiculous argument. Seriously?!
@r_benb said:
The main key issues (shown by in-game data) were that players weren't progressing very far in the campaign and weren't transitioning to multiplayer. Two pretty good causes of a retention problem, right?
Right ?! But did your in-game data also reveal the reason? Maybe the reason was the mediocre campaign. The predictable "plot twist". The fact that players was forced to play the missions of races, which they do not care. Or that there is a not to be underestimated number of players who play RTS games only because of the singleplayer and have no interest in multiplayer.
@r_benb said:
We tried a bunch of less obvious things to nudge these around for new players coming in after you. Things like difficulty tuning in the first three missions, UI changes to streamline multiplayer, suggested Vs. AI matches to warm people up to the competitive side of things, and even removing the skull system to encourage experimentation. That's what I mean when I say we shifted our focus to the foundation from content.
Maybe more obvious changes would have been necessary to save the game. There were more than enough approaches. The map editor for example. The game was released with so few maps that it hurt. You have never used the opportunity to extend the game to community maps. Why? What was the purpose of last year's survey? Was it really about DoW 3 or did you want to prevent the same failure for Age of Empires 4?
@r_benb said:
VP was considered but not prioritized given the percentage of players making it into the multiplayer ecosystem.
For real? In the first few months there were enough players in multiplayer. While the downward trend was clearly visible, nothing sustainable was done to shore up the player base. This does not mean that the new elites were a bad idea. But it was just too little and too late. Was there even a roadmap for post-launch support?
Unfortunately I have the feeling that these are not the real reasons. You need developer resources for Age of Empires 4, and if you're working on other projects (Company of Heroes 3?) You have to save somewhere else. Maybe it would have been better not to publish DoW 3 instead and giving the series such an unworthy ending. Anyway, I'm not going to get a Relic game anymore for launch as Limited / Special Edition.
@r_benb said:
The main key issues (shown by in-game data) were that players weren't progressing very far in the campaign and weren't transitioning to multiplayer. Two pretty good causes of a retention problem, right? @r_benb said:
We tried a bunch of less obvious things to nudge these around for new players coming in after you. Things like difficulty tuning in the first three missions, UI changes to streamline multiplayer, suggested Vs. AI matches to warm people up to the competitive side of things, and even removing the skull system to encourage experimentation. That's what I mean when I say we shifted our focus to the foundation from content. @r_benb said:
VP was considered but not prioritized given the percentage of players making it into the multiplayer ecosystem.
For real? In the first few months there were enough players in multiplayer. While the downward trend was clearly visible, nothing sustainable was done to shore up the player base. This does not mean that the new elites were a bad idea. But it was just too little and too late. Was there even a roadmap for post-launch support?
Unfortunately I have the feeling that these are not the real reasons.
I think they are the reasons alright. When players even don't finish the single player, or ever try the multiplayer after that for more than several hours, something is wrong at the core.
But I agree about the Victory Point aspect. They had to implement this together with all other additions. I for one was waiting for it, and hated playing the other modes. It is probably the main reason I quit as soon as I did.
Dow3 is more than a failure in any aspect, it overdraft fans confident on relic as studio, DOW3 is the first Title that develop under the wing of Sega, at this point i can only imagine the dispointment of the pulisher. i have wittness the dissaster development pocesses first hand, you can check my pofile 3 year badge. watch dow3 little by little become what it is at it's lunch is truely a painful experence.
the biggest disppointment i have about dow3 is, competletly lack of innovation. game feel like is from 2000, the biggest promise of the title was nver deliver, "large scale" combat is never deliver. because when you make promise of such you are no longer making a promise that compare to your pervious title, you are compare it to the entire industry. when you talk about "large scale" people think of total annihilation level, total war level, not C&C level.
when the biggest defining feature fail to deliever, there is really not much left for the game, the rest of the feature feel like a third rate studio trying to make a name for themselve to fill anything in their head instead of thorough testing and carefully planning .
lets take VP mode that appeal in the company of hero and dow2 games as example. it's The most Compelicate system developed in any RTS game ever made by far. in this game mode,The total outcome of the game is determine by a combination result of players: VP tickets+technology level+ combat outcomes+map control/economic, any of this 4 element have decisive result on the final outcome, and there are almost Countless interreation between those elemets itself. in this system, people are force to engage in a high pace gameplay in order to gain favor in those 4 catagory to secure the final outcome. a true master piece of innovation.
than we look at SC system, if you ever play in a paid-level SC, that would telll you SC is about numbers, about what you can Build in X time, and what you can do with those unit at the same time . this might sounds an extreme plain example, but magic is come with the number itself. those number has been carefully tweak to a degree where player can do anything with any unit. for example raze base with the first basical unit you can build. so in this case similar to the VP point game, they are almost Countless choice there, player are force to make a reaction in a fastly evolving game where anything is possible in any time. in a context like this to be the guy who strike first is essential.
people on this forum are rarely compare dow3 to warcraft3, but again they are roughly 20 active member here so there is no real opinion here. in my opinion warcraft3 (2003) is a way more elegant desgin than dow3, it has a way more compelicate hero system and meaningfull way for hero to deliver it's impact on the field. and a loot system to provide a degree of randomness to mantain the games"flavor". for example, when you look at Warcraft3, if the otherside goes for a full AOE hero build, the otherside can counter it by buying heal scroll, 1 heal scroll for each ability will netulize it's dmg kept it's army alive, to keep it's RTS element alive. in addition t3 heavy melee roll over most of the hero.
at this point i dont think i have anything left to say, in summry, what i think of relic studio is, this Brand mean to me. the brand means a in depths, innovative, mature game provider, i didnt use the word "RTS" because that is an obsolete word, but what is the core value of the studio?? i dont think it should have any change. if i want an angry bird i go play a ++heresy redacted++ angry bird. best luck with AOE4. despite i dont think it's a good title to start with after dow3 but best of the luck.
1) Listen, the game is fine.. sure the single-player campaign is poor, but the multiplayer really had potential. The game itself is probably unfinished .. but coming here and whining about a small player base? Does or did Relic has/had a marketing department? The standard version costs 54 euros here in Romania and the LE is about 65 euros.. talked to people from Malaysia where the standard version costs 113$. Most people probably got the game as a bundle with buying a graphics card.. and if you think that the game was worth that kind of money you must be brainless. Tell your marketing department to start searching for a RTS game that costs 60 euros and have a cognitive session of chattering.. then come back here and whine about how small the player base was.
2) If a great car manufacturer, let's skip names for this one, would do (like some did) a car and sell 250k vehicles to people.. then realize its a major flow with the front wheels, do you think they could afford to just "drop the project and support"? Or maybe you think they need to assume the costs, recall and fix the cars.. or face the possibility selling 5 cars in the future instead of millions ?
3) This is the point where I'd just flame decision factors .. but I'll only say that the disappointment in Relic's actions almost make me puke.. instead.
well stuck out for couple months, back to dawn of war 2 elite, if its still around , it was pretty good game and had a lot of room for improvement, should of added chaos at the start
game has potential, but balancing is a joke. Its getting a bit better but will see how it goes it's not quite there yet. The mutiplayer has a pretty rough learning curb
Most mutiplayer games involve spamming devastors or snipers, orcs have no stormboys to counter this. Heros can one shot entire army's in combination. They need to get rid of the whole skull thing, it's dumb and hurts mutiplayer because you have to grind skulls and level up heros to unlock doctrines. No one has time for that.
Here are my suggestions
done-Make the Skulls Unlock dlc skins/portraits or whatever non competitive stufff
done slow effects-add fields of fire (for devastors at least or increase set up times, I think one of the devastors for marines is no set-up time)
done-make hero's tanky and less one shoot abilities
not yet-4v4
done-fix the ram issue or whatever causes the game to lag-barely playable
not yet-add anhiliation mode to quick match selection.
or just release the source code, and let the community fix the game if its just a cash grab anyways.
game started with 25,000 players it is now down to 600
I waited and bought it anyways, just to see how bad it was. It's not terrible but you can tell no one even look at balanceing from community games
Dawn of war 1 anhiliation
Dawn of war 2 elite.
The the high point is I do like the amount of destruction in the game, but being one shotted by two abilities is kind of a low point.
I would go as far as to offer a non-hero game version. I bet the pacing of the game would be totally differen't. I think it would be a much better game and would allow the dev's to see how the balancing between the units. Without the heros screwing it all up.
I voting a recommandation. but if you gonna leave one guy in the back of the office to maintain the game, just release the source code and let the community balance it out.
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So, basically, you sold this game for equivalent of 60€, you massed it up badly and now, only after 10 months you are saying that you will just jump out of this sinking ship because you don’t have the "foundation" to set things right and there are other projects that need attention, yes?
Don't really know dow 2 elite mod is still kicking but when i left it, it was balanced and enriched don't know if it is the same maybe time to find out?
@OmnidTorquora said:
So, basically, you sold this game for equivalent of 60€, you massed it up badly and now, only after 10 months you are saying that you will just jump out of this sinking ship because you don’t have the "foundation" to set things right and there are other projects that need attention, yes?
My experience with Games Workshop products goes back to 1990 when my mother brought back a copy of White Dwarf and a box of pewter Tactical Marines from Great Britain to our home in Canada. This acted as a catalyst - over the next ten years my group of close friends (around 10 of us in total) proceeded to build up vast armies and waged countless battles - both Fantasy battle and 40k, this later evolved into Necromunda. Eventually we found ourselves as adults in the post 2000 years. The idea of getting together for table-top miniature battles was was no longer possible, the hobby has evolved for us in two ways - reading the novels - and playing the computer games.
We happily gobbled down Dawn of War I, loving the singe player campaign, but ultimately playing it more for the MP. Then Dawn of War II came out, hey, it's a bit weird at first, bit different from DOW I, but that was OK! we loved the 'diablo in space' type feeling of item collection and hero progression, cool! We played the hell out of these earlier games. Then a change occured in my own life, I moved to England, i left my games behind - both electronic and table top.
However, i knew ... i saw... i was excited ... Dawn of War III was announced -- and OMG that opening Trailer. I don't think I had ever been so hyped for a game before in my life. Literally, this was the game I had been HYPE for. So i planned, i organised, all the original friends knew, we all constantly searched out information on what this game might be. I didn't even have a gaming computer, myself and two other friends actually BOUGHT a gaming laptop just so we would be ready to play Dawn of War III.
Then April 2017 comes around and we eagerly install the game. I have to say, I played SP for a few moments, but ultimately found it wasn't to my liking (FINE I DIDNT BUY THE GAME FOR SINGLE PLAYER), I bought it for multiplayer. And guess what? WE LOVED DOW III MP, and WE STILL DO. Is it Masochistic at times? Yes! Do we get our asses kicked regularly? YES! But do we find ways to overcome these strong challenges? YES! Do we still play Weekly DOWIII sessions: YES! -- But guess what? I will tell you ... the gameplay is GREAT, It's FUN! the graphics are nice! The sound design is excellent! we knew the game was in trouble from all the negative press and low player numbers, but we had HOPE, we had HOPE that you would atleast keep our sandbox alive --- that you would at least care enough to release future balance patches - additional game modes - Hell even new Races would have been nice. BUT NOPE!
Relic for the first time in my life I cannot recall being so ANGRY at a game developer you have TARNISHED the DAWN OF WAR name with your decision. Games Workshop should revoke their license immediately from RELIC IMMEDIATELY! You had muddied with a truly historic property - and guess what? you catastrophically F&*ked it up!
That Eurogamer article was a punch in the face. Why not just come right out and tell us you were abandoning the game? SO many unanswered questions and so much spoiled greatness about what could have been.
My only hope for this going forward is that SEGA eventually licenses out the game to a third party developer who will give us a few new races and maps, that's it. Otherwise it's up to the community to fix this game, and their's too many schisms for that to happen.
Relic, I loved your game, but you messed up big time. I will never buy another Relic property.
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Amoc
That's a really good answer and I'm encouraged by that response and perspective from Relic. Thanks for responding. I will look forward to playing more Relic games in the future.
Dullahan
I actually enjoyed the Campaign but that was through the lense of "I am playing this once and then playing multiplayer for the next 5 years year. It was piss easy on normal mode though, even hard mode only gave me trouble once or twice.
JDizzleton
I'd just like to thank anybody at Relic who might be reading this for all the hard work they put into DOW3. I really enjoy the game and as far as I'm concerned I got my "value" tenfold with the amount of time I put into it. Honestly I'm appalled at the reaction the game received from some people in the community. I've had some truly great matches in this game and I'm sad that we won't be able to see what could have been. I'm still your fan Relic and I'm looking forward to what comes next. Hang in there
Colgul
I'll always remember Relic's games of old as some of the fondest times I've had gaming. I'm never one to jump on the bandwagon and always try to think for myself but I have to agree with a lot of whats said here. I thought at first it was commendable to appear in the forums trying to explain the situation but then it leaves a bad taste in the mouth when the excuses start to come up justifying your actions. If things weren't working out the way you wanted why wasn't anything said earlier? I think this whole situation could of been avoided with better communication.
KINE
@Relic
Why wasn't the forum community be the first to be informed on this decision ?
B1ad3ua
thanks for all players and forum guys for supporting this game. sad relic didnt want to make things right. oh well.. hope oneday we will get wh40k rts we always dreamed.
HARRYY
its a mistake to abandon the game so early , as dullahan pointed out. and as spirit said, 250000 copies being sold is a good start. people who paid for a game are more willing to buy the expansions too: you already have a foot in the door. easiest most successful sales-trick and you dont take advantage of it?
...... just try to please people with the XP, put some effort in it, make some money again with DLC. why is SEGA too blind to see this?
In the end relic will suffer a lot more than SEGA will: relics losing credibility, peoples faith in the company, people gonna ++heresy redacted++ about other future projects and keep repeating what relic did with dow3. its a pity. I for one will not buy another Relic product, I love DOW so theres no chance for it anyway.
i dont believe in a bad foundation of the game - it has such an high potential. add more depth &options &race. skip SP, deliver MP-stuff make money with paid DLC. I would pay / buy everything related to dow3 but its too sad theres nothing to buy, hahahhahaah.
I ask myself is dow3 a failure because the gaming industry changed or did the gamers needs changed so hardxore? whats the real cause? that the profit was "too little" ? hell, if theres profit , its worth it already....... thats the sad Part when studios get bought by companies like SEGA or whoever.
abandoning such a well produced game is without any example - or I dont know better.
this move's Impact will hit hard. its not here yet.
octovert
I'm available for consulting work. Just sayin'
ErffShatterinKaboom1
Relic,
You guys truly made a beautiful game and captured the imagery of the 40k universe perfectly. This game was one of the best tactical games I've ever played that is full of nuanced micro-management in a fast-paced tempo. I logged almost 1,000 hours into your game - yes, you read that right - and I sincerely enjoyed every minute of it. It had some warts and growing pains, but I felt that each patch you guys made the game better. I am, of course, disappointed that your company will no longer support this game. But please know, from this ramshackled warboss, that I was a big fan of what you guys created.
Erff-Shatterin' Kaboom!
HARRYY
after 1000 hours you're just fine to say RIP?
hmmmm.... impressive. wait! are u real?
Lakaoum
Why RTS teams are blind.
Once upon a time .... Age of empires Online ... Once upon a time Command and Conquer 4 .... Once upon a time Grey Goo ... Once upon a time Dawn of War 3!!!! Hey, please remember how was an RTS is the past 10 years, and look to what you release!!! Listen to the core fans players, those who play for hours and hours, those who enjoy pvp too a lot. If you deserve them, they can't let you a second chance. RTS is not a candy crush game, it is a kind of game with a high expectation of quality.
You can't say, we hera you, and not changing all you have seen. Beta is for that. You can change laucnh market date to avoid a such matter. DoW3 has a unique potential and i still love this game, but seriously .... nothing for epsort, still no observatory mode, how hell could core gamers play or organize regular tournament and entertainning? This just a part of the matter, and as i say i still love this game anyway.
Here on AoE 4 .... no one of the actual aoe lovrers want a time line of ww1 and ww2 .... but it will be on it! think of that too.
ps : i would have never put time and money on this game if i was not convinced it was a good game. www.dawnofwar3france.com was born to support the game. and i will continue to support it.
Who knows, if it is like age of emipers online ... it reborns from ashes and stronger than before.
Artist
They won't expand the game because player base is too low, increase player base and that might change. I know I'll still play. Now that no content will be added, modders have the motivation they needed to get serious. That could play a part.
Deserts of Kharak had an average pop of 70 for months, but because of the dedicated hardcore base BBI put out a balance+bug fix patch recently.
The players make the game. The worst part about this is the self-fulfilling prophecy of ded gaem>don't play the game>kill the game>ded gaem. Less QQ, more playing the game might have helped here (along with better Relic communication).
0riginal_z0M
To a certain extent.. what was the point in making a game they were not going to do anything with...
They MUST have a race on an external hardrive somewhere... I refuse to believe that there is nothing... They just don't have the staff to support it for another year with other projects which to me is absolutely sickening.. I am actually devastated i waited since the fall of Soulstorm.. the majority of my 20's
I had big plans to waste my 30's on this game...
Spirit
Its not a bad dream mate, dow3 is a dow that will go into history books with 3 races only.
Mervinas
So true...
Less crap talking about how the game bad is, more playing and trying to get all new things into heart.
The community has to accept it did it's part in killing this game. Demanding various things of "past glory", parroting each other and not seeing all good new things in this game. And those are plenty to enjoy.
I'm feeling so sad about this outcome.
I am veteran player started from Homeworld and played every Relic game since. And there was no single Relic's game I haven't liked. Many where the best I have played. For me Relic is game developer No 1 and always will be.
So sad they had to endure THQ meltdown, which I am sure had it's impact on DOW 3 too, and now this. They didn't deserve it, and didn't deserve all hate from community members, who could move to other games having not found what they wanted in DOW3 instead of bashing it everywhere. Yea, Empathy is rare to come by these days.
For the DOW3 I see the only possibility to stay somehow alive - that is to let modders do what they can and give them the best support Relic could afford (perhaps later, but Relic should look for such opportunities in all seriousness). You should take a look at X-COM 2 - what fantastic content was created by dedicated players having proper tools and support. Maybe a miracle happens, more players would come with time, and Relic could afford some additional content.
On the end, I would like to Thank You, my beloved company, for all great (and so many greatest) moments in my gaming life and wish you all the luck in future!
NecroBeer
This game looked like sh1t before release, and after the impressions were confirmed. There are many good ideas but the overall game is bad. That escalating economy is the worst aspect of the game. I hope the franchise will be sold to a more competent developer. You had all the cards to make a great RTS, simply picking the most loved features of the previous DOWs and CoHs, so your fail is no justifiable. You should go back to plow fields for your incompetence
Nemesis
I have 600 hours in Dow1 on various iterations, and 1400 hours in dow 2. Most of it multiplayer, of course. I have 50 hours in DoW3.
Lead Designers were your retention problem. I hope they never do another game again.
Sad, really, I bet 90% of the people working on the game are actually talented.
VanceStubbs_86
Disappointment, anger, sadness and other feelings that came to mind after reading the "good" news for Dawn of War 3. I'm waiting months for the first teaser of the expansion, but instead I learn that the games series I've played for 14 years is declared dead. With this ridiculous argument. Seriously?!
Right ?! But did your in-game data also reveal the reason? Maybe the reason was the mediocre campaign. The predictable "plot twist". The fact that players was forced to play the missions of races, which they do not care. Or that there is a not to be underestimated number of players who play RTS games only because of the singleplayer and have no interest in multiplayer.
Maybe more obvious changes would have been necessary to save the game. There were more than enough approaches. The map editor for example. The game was released with so few maps that it hurt. You have never used the opportunity to extend the game to community maps. Why? What was the purpose of last year's survey? Was it really about DoW 3 or did you want to prevent the same failure for Age of Empires 4?
For real? In the first few months there were enough players in multiplayer. While the downward trend was clearly visible, nothing sustainable was done to shore up the player base. This does not mean that the new elites were a bad idea. But it was just too little and too late. Was there even a roadmap for post-launch support?
Unfortunately I have the feeling that these are not the real reasons. You need developer resources for Age of Empires 4, and if you're working on other projects (Company of Heroes 3?) You have to save somewhere else. Maybe it would have been better not to publish DoW 3 instead and giving the series such an unworthy ending. Anyway, I'm not going to get a Relic game anymore for launch as Limited / Special Edition.
Nemesis
I think they are the reasons alright. When players even don't finish the single player, or ever try the multiplayer after that for more than several hours, something is wrong at the core.
But I agree about the Victory Point aspect. They had to implement this together with all other additions. I for one was waiting for it, and hated playing the other modes. It is probably the main reason I quit as soon as I did.
greedogre
Dow3 is more than a failure in any aspect, it overdraft fans confident on relic as studio, DOW3 is the first Title that develop under the wing of Sega, at this point i can only imagine the dispointment of the pulisher. i have wittness the dissaster development pocesses first hand, you can check my pofile 3 year badge. watch dow3 little by little become what it is at it's lunch is truely a painful experence.
the biggest disppointment i have about dow3 is, competletly lack of innovation. game feel like is from 2000, the biggest promise of the title was nver deliver, "large scale" combat is never deliver. because when you make promise of such you are no longer making a promise that compare to your pervious title, you are compare it to the entire industry. when you talk about "large scale" people think of total annihilation level, total war level, not C&C level.
when the biggest defining feature fail to deliever, there is really not much left for the game, the rest of the feature feel like a third rate studio trying to make a name for themselve to fill anything in their head instead of thorough testing and carefully planning .
lets take VP mode that appeal in the company of hero and dow2 games as example. it's The most Compelicate system developed in any RTS game ever made by far. in this game mode,The total outcome of the game is determine by a combination result of players: VP tickets+technology level+ combat outcomes+map control/economic, any of this 4 element have decisive result on the final outcome, and there are almost Countless interreation between those elemets itself. in this system, people are force to engage in a high pace gameplay in order to gain favor in those 4 catagory to secure the final outcome. a true master piece of innovation.
than we look at SC system, if you ever play in a paid-level SC, that would telll you SC is about numbers, about what you can Build in X time, and what you can do with those unit at the same time . this might sounds an extreme plain example, but magic is come with the number itself. those number has been carefully tweak to a degree where player can do anything with any unit. for example raze base with the first basical unit you can build. so in this case similar to the VP point game, they are almost Countless choice there, player are force to make a reaction in a fastly evolving game where anything is possible in any time. in a context like this to be the guy who strike first is essential.
people on this forum are rarely compare dow3 to warcraft3, but again they are roughly 20 active member here so there is no real opinion here. in my opinion warcraft3 (2003) is a way more elegant desgin than dow3, it has a way more compelicate hero system and meaningfull way for hero to deliver it's impact on the field. and a loot system to provide a degree of randomness to mantain the games"flavor". for example, when you look at Warcraft3, if the otherside goes for a full AOE hero build, the otherside can counter it by buying heal scroll, 1 heal scroll for each ability will netulize it's dmg kept it's army alive, to keep it's RTS element alive. in addition t3 heavy melee roll over most of the hero.
at this point i dont think i have anything left to say, in summry, what i think of relic studio is, this Brand mean to me. the brand means a in depths, innovative, mature game provider, i didnt use the word "RTS" because that is an obsolete word, but what is the core value of the studio?? i dont think it should have any change. if i want an angry bird i go play a ++heresy redacted++ angry bird. best luck with AOE4. despite i dont think it's a good title to start with after dow3 but best of the luck.
ggMax
1) Listen, the game is fine.. sure the single-player campaign is poor, but the multiplayer really had potential. The game itself is probably unfinished .. but coming here and whining about a small player base? Does or did Relic has/had a marketing department? The standard version costs 54 euros here in Romania and the LE is about 65 euros.. talked to people from Malaysia where the standard version costs 113$. Most people probably got the game as a bundle with buying a graphics card.. and if you think that the game was worth that kind of money you must be brainless. Tell your marketing department to start searching for a RTS game that costs 60 euros and have a cognitive session of chattering.. then come back here and whine about how small the player base was.
2) If a great car manufacturer, let's skip names for this one, would do (like some did) a car and sell 250k vehicles to people.. then realize its a major flow with the front wheels, do you think they could afford to just "drop the project and support"? Or maybe you think they need to assume the costs, recall and fix the cars.. or face the possibility selling 5 cars in the future instead of millions ?
3) This is the point where I'd just flame decision factors .. but I'll only say that the disappointment in Relic's actions almost make me puke.. instead.
a7threalm
well stuck out for couple months, back to dawn of war 2 elite, if its still around
, it was pretty good game and had a lot of room for improvement, should of added chaos at the start 
here is my orginal steam post, you came close
Posted: Jul 26, 2017 @ 9:22pm
Updated: Nov 16, 2017 @ 10:32pm
game has potential, but balancing is a joke. Its getting a bit better but will see how it goes it's not quite there yet. The mutiplayer has a pretty rough learning curb
Most mutiplayer games involve spamming devastors or snipers, orcs have no stormboys to counter this. Heros can one shot entire army's in combination. They need to get rid of the whole skull thing, it's dumb and hurts mutiplayer because you have to grind skulls and level up heros to unlock doctrines. No one has time for that.
Here are my suggestions
done-Make the Skulls Unlock dlc skins/portraits or whatever non competitive stufff
done slow effects-add fields of fire (for devastors at least or increase set up times, I think one of the devastors for marines is no set-up time)
done-make hero's tanky and less one shoot abilities
not yet-4v4
done-fix the ram issue or whatever causes the game to lag-barely playable
not yet-add anhiliation mode to quick match selection.
or just release the source code, and let the community fix the game if its just a cash grab anyways.
game started with 25,000 players it is now down to 600
I waited and bought it anyways, just to see how bad it was. It's not terrible but you can tell no one even look at balanceing from community games
Dawn of war 1 anhiliation
Dawn of war 2 elite.
The the high point is I do like the amount of destruction in the game, but being one shotted by two abilities is kind of a low point.
I would go as far as to offer a non-hero game version. I bet the pacing of the game would be totally differen't. I think it would be a much better game and would allow the dev's to see how the balancing between the units. Without the heros screwing it all up.
I voting a recommandation. but if you gonna leave one guy in the back of the office to maintain the game, just release the source code and let the community balance it out.
1 Comments Subscribe to thread (?)
OmnidTorquora
So, basically, you sold this game for equivalent of 60€, you massed it up badly and now, only after 10 months you are saying that you will just jump out of this sinking ship because you don’t have the "foundation" to set things right and there are other projects that need attention, yes?
Codex_Astartes
Don't really know dow 2 elite mod is still kicking but when i left it, it was balanced and enriched don't know if it is the same maybe time to find out?
HARRYY
how u put here makes it sound we got deceived.
JGRICH
Dear Relic ( @r_benb )
My experience with Games Workshop products goes back to 1990 when my mother brought back a copy of White Dwarf and a box of pewter Tactical Marines from Great Britain to our home in Canada. This acted as a catalyst - over the next ten years my group of close friends (around 10 of us in total) proceeded to build up vast armies and waged countless battles - both Fantasy battle and 40k, this later evolved into Necromunda. Eventually we found ourselves as adults in the post 2000 years. The idea of getting together for table-top miniature battles was was no longer possible, the hobby has evolved for us in two ways - reading the novels - and playing the computer games.
We happily gobbled down Dawn of War I, loving the singe player campaign, but ultimately playing it more for the MP. Then Dawn of War II came out, hey, it's a bit weird at first, bit different from DOW I, but that was OK! we loved the 'diablo in space' type feeling of item collection and hero progression, cool! We played the hell out of these earlier games. Then a change occured in my own life, I moved to England, i left my games behind - both electronic and table top.
However, i knew ... i saw... i was excited ... Dawn of War III was announced -- and OMG that opening Trailer. I don't think I had ever been so hyped for a game before in my life. Literally, this was the game I had been HYPE for. So i planned, i organised, all the original friends knew, we all constantly searched out information on what this game might be. I didn't even have a gaming computer, myself and two other friends actually BOUGHT a gaming laptop just so we would be ready to play Dawn of War III.
Then April 2017 comes around and we eagerly install the game. I have to say, I played SP for a few moments, but ultimately found it wasn't to my liking (FINE I DIDNT BUY THE GAME FOR SINGLE PLAYER), I bought it for multiplayer. And guess what? WE LOVED DOW III MP, and WE STILL DO. Is it Masochistic at times? Yes! Do we get our asses kicked regularly? YES! But do we find ways to overcome these strong challenges? YES! Do we still play Weekly DOWIII sessions: YES! -- But guess what? I will tell you ... the gameplay is GREAT, It's FUN! the graphics are nice! The sound design is excellent! we knew the game was in trouble from all the negative press and low player numbers, but we had HOPE, we had HOPE that you would atleast keep our sandbox alive --- that you would at least care enough to release future balance patches - additional game modes - Hell even new Races would have been nice. BUT NOPE!
Relic for the first time in my life I cannot recall being so ANGRY at a game developer you have TARNISHED the DAWN OF WAR name with your decision. Games Workshop should revoke their license immediately from RELIC IMMEDIATELY! You had muddied with a truly historic property - and guess what? you catastrophically F&*ked it up!
That Eurogamer article was a punch in the face. Why not just come right out and tell us you were abandoning the game? SO many unanswered questions and so much spoiled greatness about what could have been.
My only hope for this going forward is that SEGA eventually licenses out the game to a third party developer who will give us a few new races and maps, that's it. Otherwise it's up to the community to fix this game, and their's too many schisms for that to happen.
Relic, I loved your game, but you messed up big time. I will never buy another Relic property.
Sincerely,
J.G.RICH